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Thread: Mcse?

  1. #11
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    I worked as IT. I see that alot of companies required MCSE but dont know much on hand-on. that s part of negative.

    I agree with bballad - stay in school and get some degree. I m going back to school to get bs degree in IT.

    good luck man
    Prana0777

  2. #12
    AO Security for Non-Geeks tonybradley's Avatar
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    Here is my problem with degrees- they're highly overrated. How many people are working a job that has absolutely nothing to do with the degree they studied for in college?? How many people with degrees are unemployed??

    Many kids spend 4 to 6 years in college pursuing a bachelors degree thinking its the holy grail to successful employment. What happens is they start in the work force 4 to 6 years later with tens of thousands of dollars of debt in student loans to pay back.

    You can get an entry-level job somewhere- even in the Best Buy repair center or something. By the time 4 to 6 years go by you have 4 to 6 years of experience and possibly a few certifications. Odds are fair that you can also get your employer to pay all or part of your education expenses if you choose to pursue a degree on the side and you may qualify for more grants and scholarships by being in the field than just being a student.

    In 4 years would you rather have 4 years of experience and have worked your way past the $50k salary mark with your employer helping you pay for your degree or would you rather just be getting your entry-level $25k or $30k job with $50k of debt to pay back?

    Even in a tight job market I think you can go farther searching for that entry-level position and getting your career started instead of laying low in college and hoping the market is better before you graduate.

  3. #13
    I agree with toneybradley. I have an associates degree (unrelated to IT), and then went on to get 6 years IT experience in the military. When I got out I was able to use that experience over someone with certs and no experience. Since then I moved into the Security field and am now doing vulnerability assessments. I'm now in the position now (just under $100K) where a degree would help in a pay increase (put me over the $100k plateau) but certs are just a "nice to have". I think the biggest thing is experience and being able to back that up in the interview process through a technical interview. Just my thoughts from my personal experience.

  4. #14
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    Originally posted here by tonybradley
    Here is my problem with degrees- they're highly overrated. How many people are working a job that has absolutely nothing to do with the degree they studied for in college?? How many people with degrees are unemployed??

    Many kids spend 4 to 6 years in college pursuing a bachelors degree thinking its the holy grail to successful employment. What happens is they start in the work force 4 to 6 years later with tens of thousands of dollars of debt in student loans to pay back.

    You can get an entry-level job somewhere- even in the Best Buy repair center or something. By the time 4 to 6 years go by you have 4 to 6 years of experience and possibly a few certifications. Odds are fair that you can also get your employer to pay all or part of your education expenses if you choose to pursue a degree on the side and you may qualify for more grants and scholarships by being in the field than just being a student.

    In 4 years would you rather have 4 years of experience and have worked your way past the $50k salary mark with your employer helping you pay for your degree or would you rather just be getting your entry-level $25k or $30k job with $50k of debt to pay back?

    Even in a tight job market I think you can go farther searching for that entry-level position and getting your career started instead of laying low in college and hoping the market is better before you graduate.
    I would love to agree with you, in fact after 2 years of school I dropped out because I wanted to get into networking not programming. Unfortunately during my last job search I was constantly told that the position required a Bachelors or higher, these where jobs I have 5 years experience in...I final got a position by neglecting to mention that I didn't get a degree when I mentioned what University I went to I let them infer whatever they wanted to by my years of education, this got my resume past the HR peons. My wife is in the same feild I am in with two less years of experience, she is makeing about 10k a year more then me bacuse of her degree and that difrence is widening...when it hits 30k (about 10 years from now if the groth rate continues) I'm going back to school.


    On the pay note ...every one I know with a degree in CS (about 25 people that I keep ties with) all but one was making over 50k in their entry-level job. The one exception went on to a MBA and was making 65k entry level. With out the degree well as a tech at most repair joints you will make 8-12 an hour don't make the same mistake I did, even if you don't want to program finish that CS/BCS/ICS degree its worth it. Note that about half of these people found jobs post bust the rest where pre bust

  5. #15
    AO Security for Non-Geeks tonybradley's Avatar
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    I am sure there are exceptions in both directions.

    I have one friend who dropped out of high school and went to work programming at age 16. He is now 22 and making almost $80k as the lead developer for a company.

    On the other hand, I have another friend who went to college on the 6 year plan majoring in English. He now works in some anonymous administrative position making somewhere in the $35k to $40k neighborhood after being there for 5 years. He has been out of college 10 years and just got done paying off student loans.

    Unfortunately during my last job search I was constantly told that the position required a Bachelors or higher
    This is very true- especially once you hit a plateau. You mentioned that you have 5 years experience which is about where I am as well. I have found that I am about maxed in terms of what I can do without a degree which is why I am now getting one. The question is, do you think you would be better off or farther along in your career if you would have taken 4 years to get the degree? I think you might open a door or two now, but you would still be 4 years farther behind in the experience department which would close a lot of doors as well.

    I got my entry-level job with no "real" experience, no degree and no certifications and went from $30k to $65k in 3 years by job-hopping (pre-bust). Honestly, I think there is a great deal of luck / fate involved (being in the right place at the right time) and a LOT of plain interviewing skills. If you talk a good game and sound confident I think you get offers that others who may be technically superior but not as good at communicating miss out on.

    Just my $.02 (or was that $.03?)

  6. #16
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    Originally posted here by tonybradley
    I am sure there are exceptions in both directions.

    I have one friend who dropped out of high school and went to work programming at age 16. He is now 22 and making almost $80k as the lead developer for a company.

    On the other hand, I have another friend who went to college on the 6 year plan majoring in English. He now works in some anonymous administrative position making somewhere in the $35k to $40k neighborhood after being there for 5 years. He has been out of college 10 years and just got done paying off student loans.



    This is very true- especially once you hit a plateau. You mentioned that you have 5 years experience which is about where I am as well. I have found that I am about maxed in terms of what I can do without a degree which is why I am now getting one. The question is, do you think you would be better off or farther along in your career if you would have taken 4 years to get the degree? I think you might open a door or two now, but you would still be 4 years farther behind in the experience department which would close a lot of doors as well.

    I got my entry-level job with no "real" experience, no degree and no certifications and went from $30k to $65k in 3 years by job-hopping (pre-bust). Honestly, I think there is a great deal of luck / fate involved (being in the right place at the right time) and a LOT of plain interviewing skills. If you talk a good game and sound confident I think you get offers that others who may be technically superior but not as good at communicating miss out on.

    Just my $.02 (or was that $.03?)
    I think the prebust has a lot to do with it. I had no problem finindg jobs pre 2001 post 2001 I heard a lot of well you don't have a degree.

  7. #17
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    Either way you go someone is going to say it's overrated. I have coworkers that put more merit in certs than degrees, and some that put more merit in degree's than certs (ask which one they went for and you'll see why).

    I myself am going for a balance of both....I have some certs, I just started school, and I will continue to do both.
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  8. #18
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    The choice between CERTs and DEGREEs is definitly gamble either way (as most things in life are). There will be success and failure stories in either direction. The thing, I believe, you should look at it what makes the most sense for you...don't try to follow the career paths of others.

    Getting your CERTS right away will definitly get your foot in the door and get you a good paying job quickly. Some jobs will then pay for you to go get your education (degree). Most likely, though, you will not keep your initial job for the rest of your life. Heck, I didn't keep my first 4 computer jobs, with six years of IT experience. BTW...the last job I left had a salary of $56K, which is pretty good in Louisiana. So, if (most likely when) you leave your job, what will get you your new job?

    Experience and CERTs will go a long way, but if you don't have a degree, you will be hitting the platau that tonybradley mentioned. Basically, unless you go the do-it-yourself (self-employment) route or you got a connection, you NEED a degree.

    Now, there is no debating the fact, that getting a degree while you are young is infinitly easier than juggling school, wife(?), kids(?), and all the crap that comes your way later in life. You simply have more time and less restrictions when you're young. I say while your young and have lots of free time, go to school and get your degree. Heck, take 16 to 18 hours a semester if you're in a hurry. Besides, if you want your CERTs later, they are something you can break up and fit into just about any schedule, no matter how hectic or they are something you can knockout quickly. A degree is very hard to break up and gets very tiring when it gets dragged out for many years.

    To answer the original question:
    I am A+ certified and needless to say it was easy to obtain. I am currently reaching out for MCSE and want to know if anybody else is MCSE and what is there take on that particular certification? Any suggestions?
    Don't jump from A+ to MCSE. Get your Net+ first. It will give you a good foundation for the MCSE. If you want your simplest route through the MCSE, as well, the A+ and Net+ will buy your way out of an Elective Exam, but you have to request the credit from Microsoft. Additionally, get your MCSA along the way. The elective Exam for the MCSA is a joke compared to the core four MCSE/MCSA exams AND it counts toward the MCSE. Check out the tracks [a href="http://www.microsoft.com/mcp"]here[/a]. You can essentially reduce your actual studying to 5 exams...the core 4 and the design course. Just look out for Directory Services *cringe*. It's BY FAR the nastiest exam of the core 4....Good Luck!
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  9. #19
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    Another note on all of this is that most places that will give you money for college will also give you money for cert courses and tests.


    Oh and go to a state school the cost is much lower and the education is no worse if not better (see CalTech).

  10. #20
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    mcse reply

    well mcse is quite easy if you put your mind to it i have not yet done it but i have a cousin who have and he says it's very interesting it all depends on you so far you put your mind to it you can do it ,so friend go for it

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