Abu Mazin/Puppet or not?
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Thread: Abu Mazin/Puppet or not?

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Abu Mazin/Puppet or not?

    Bomb blast rip through Israel again for the fifth time in three days. Seem's to me like "Abu Mazin" isnt doing a damn thing. He want's to pursuade the terrorist to give up their weapons and avoid doing it by force. This is nothing more than a horrible rerun of Arafat. This new appoinment of Abu Mazin as Prime Minister is nothing but a ruse.

    Latest Suicide Bombing Kills Two at Israeli Mall
    Mon May 19, 2003 12:15 PM ET
    By Shlomi Afriat

    AFULA, Israel (Reuters) - A suspected Palestinian suicide bomber killed at least two people, including a security guard, and wounded 17 others at a shopping mall in northern Israel Monday, police and witnesses said.

    The fifth suicide bombing in three days dealt another blow to hopes that a U.S.-backed peace plan will take hold to end a more than 31-month-old Palestinian uprising in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which Israel captured in the 1967 Middle East war.

    The suicide bomber appeared to have detonated his explosives when confronted by the guard at the mall's entrance, witnesses said. Police described the bomber as a man after initial reports suggested it was a woman -- a rarity for Palestinian attacks.

    Police, medics and passersby clambered up steps to the covered mall entrance, whose doors were shattered by the blast. A Hebrew sign over the entrance bid shoppers "Welcome."

    "There was a huge explosion at the entrance. Some of the wounded were taken away by ambulances, and there are some dead here," an unidentified witness told Israel in Afula, which is a few kilometers (miles) from the West bank.

    Regional police chief Yakov Borovsky said: "We are talking about a dead terrorist and two other people killed ... All the possibilities are being investigated, but there is no doubt that our methods of security ... prevented far worse casualties."

    An Israeli security source said unknown persons were spotted racing away from the scene shortly before blast. Israeli police units were sealing off the area for searches.

    There was no immediate claim of responsibility. But Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi, a senior figure in the militant Islamic movement Hamas, said the fight against Israel would continue.

    "The attack indicates that the Palestinian people will not surrender to the Zionist terrorism and it says clearly that the Palestinians' blood is not cheap," he told Reuters in Gaza.

    The attack was part of a surge of violence since talks between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas Saturday night on a U.S.-led "road map" to establishing Palestinian statehood by 2005.

    The bloodshed prompted Sharon to put off a visit to the United States this week. Sharon has not yet accepted the road map, saying Israel wanted to request changes to the plan.

    A Palestinian suicide bomber with 22 to 44 pounds of explosives packed on the back of his bicycle blew up near an army jeep in the Gaza Strip earlier Monday, killing himself and slightly wounding three soldiers.

    A day earlier a Palestinian militant disguised as a religious Jew blew himself up on a Jerusalem bus, killing seven people, and a suicide bomber killed only himself when he detonated explosives near a roadblock shortly afterwards.

    A suicide bombing also killed a Jewish settler and his pregnant wife in the West Bank city of Hebron Saturday.
    Now I know what the usual line is that always comes from Arafat "We condem the killing of women and children." Yet this bastard does nothing to stop any of it. In my opinion Abu Mazin is nothing more than a puppet of Yasser Afrafat. The "homicide" bombers are so predictable, every time peace talks are about to resume, the bombings begin to happen. Now you might say that this is soley the work of the terrorist, I disagree. If Yasser Arafat wanted to stop these attacks, he damn sure could, and when they "symbolically" put these terrorist in jail there is a nice revolving door in the back for them to go through. I say expel Arafat, get someone on the Palestinian side who is willing to pursue these terrorist, and then let the peace talks begin.

  2. #2
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    well if the isrealis would split the 3-4 billion a year they get from the states with the palestinians they would be able to afford real weapons and wouldn't have to do suicide bombings. (the palestinians are no different than blacks in south africa 20 years ago,can you say aparthied)

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    well if the isrealis would split the 3-4 billion a year they get from the states with the palestinians they would be able to afford real weapons and wouldn't have to do suicide bombings. (the palestinians are no different than blacks in south africa 20 years ago,can you say aparthied)
    Is this a joke? You have got to be kidding me. Do you have a clue as to how much money the PLO has received from nations across the globe? They have received more than enough to help their people. How the hell do you compare not having money for weapons with the killing of women and children?

    aparthied
    Bull, how many concession's have we seen the Israeli's offer? Too many to count my friend! And what has been the response to these concession's by the PLO: Bombing after bombing, and murder after murder. Going after military personel is one thing, killing a baby at a shopping mall and families at wedding's is far different.

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    Disgruntled Postal Worker fourdc's Avatar
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    Of course attacking the USS Liberty sinking it and then shooting at the US Sailors that were abandoning the ship was something else too. (1967)

    Why the US Navy didn't take Israel off the map for that one is beyond me.
    ddddc

    "Somehow saying I told you so just doesn't cover it" Will Smith in I, Robot

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    Well, you can argue this one either way, but I believe they mistook our ship for an Eygptian ship. Friendly fire happens, and they are our friend and better to be wounded by a friend than by an enemy, because a wound from a friend can be trusted.

  6. #6
    Priapistic Monk KorpDeath's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by bugsthecat
    well if the isrealis would split the 3-4 billion a year they get from the states with the palestinians they would be able to afford real weapons and wouldn't have to do suicide bombings. (the palestinians are no different than blacks in south africa 20 years ago,can you say aparthied)
    You obviously haven't been keeping an eye on this situation for very long to make such an asinine comment such as that.
    Aparthied? Talk about apples and oranges. Ugh!

    P.S. I don't even know why I responded to such a ludicrous post. I need to be more selective.
    Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to acquire it.
    - Samuel Johnson

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    You know, I can understand why the Palestinians are blowing themselves up in Israel. I can understand it, but I can't justify it - acts of violence is unjustifiable IMO, it should only take place when all else is tried.

    The Palestinians are occupied by a powerful enemy, and I guess they want to fight every way they can. The suicide bombings are effective and the Israelis certainly has noe good way of stopping the bombing.

    Back in the 40s my contry was occupied by the Germans. The German army was supreme to the Norwegian, and there really was no hope of fighting the conventional way. So people went and blew up buildings and bridges, terrorism I guess, but I don't think anyone called it that at the time.

    I'm not trying to create a parallell between the Germans during WW2 and the present Israel, after all the Israelis are friends and a democratic state. But I can see a common denominator between the German occupation of Norway and the Israeli occupation of Palestine - both Norwegians and Palestinians hated/hate their occupant and are willing to do a lot of bad things to harm the enemy. Even if it's not really gonna make the enemy go away. The men who blew up the German police HQ in Oslo in 1942 didn't believe the Germans would go away - but they though it would frighten and piss of the Germans, I guess that was a reason good enough for them. Innocent people were killed, but I don't think the Norwegians cared. Most people when they look back, probably think it still was a right thing to do.

    A friend's grandfather became a member of the Norwegian nazi party (controlled by the Germans) during the occupation. That was wrong and cowardly, don't you think? Well, he was a peace loving man, and he did it because he believed that would stop the violence. I'm not sure what I would have done, but I think I would have tried to fight the occupant. Today we know that would have been the right choice, because the occupant was finally defeated. And we know that the Palestinians are wrong about fighting, because they are not gonna win - only make matters worse. Maybe the Palestinians believe fighting will get rid of the occupant, i don't know.

    So, IMO the Norwegians were right to blow up German istallations, and the Palestine are wrong to blow up Israeli. And it's all got to do with the outcome of the conflict. Would I support the Palestinian suicide bombing if I knew it would make Israel withdraw from the occupied soil. Hmmm... Maybe. Probably.

    Again, I would like to say that I do not in any way place Nazi Germany and Israel side by side. I'm just trying to use examples that are close to me, and the German occupation is easy for me to relate to.

    And I would like to say that in the Israeli/Palestine conflict, there are not really any badguys. Just an extremely difficult conflict and people who do what they think is right - no matter how wrong they might be.
    ---
    proactive

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    Would I support the Palestinian suicide bombing if I knew it would make Israel withdraw from the occupied soil. Hmmm... Maybe. Probably.

    Again, I would like to say that I do not in any way place Nazi Germany and Israel side by side. I'm just trying to use examples that are close to me, and the German occupation is easy for me to relate to.

    And I would like to say that in the Israeli/Palestine conflict, there are not really any badguys. Just an extremely difficult conflict and people who do what they think is right - no matter how wrong they might be.
    From reading your article here, you seem to almost sit on both sides of the fence. It wouldnt be a bid deal to do a sucicide bomb on a soldier, but i made it clear in my post that these are targeted against women and children. There is no justification for killing women and children.

    And about the occupation, what do you suggest the Israeli's do just sit back and allow this rein of terror to continue? If this was my country we would take action, just as we are already. They have to go in and fight the terrorist, and this terror is about one thing antisemitism plain and simple. Just like when the Iraeli's gave Arafat a whopping 97% of what he wanted, and what was his response?: The entifada(or uprising) against Israel. And this same entifada continues today. I would caution you to not be fooled by what Arafat says in english to the press ,but pay close attention to what he says in arabic(if your lucky enough for someone to translate for you)some programs will give you a bit of what he is saying in Arabic to the "street" after the cameras are off. This has nothing to do with land or occupation, the Arab nations have already stated that Israel should be wiped of the map, and many Arab states don't even recognize their nation as legitamite(or their right to exist).

    We all remember the 6 day war don't we?

    How the war started...

    Years before the war, hostilities between the Arab nations, and the Jews had already been at a high point. The Arab nations refused to accept the fact that Israel could be a Jewish state, and so, President Nasser of Egypt called for the destruction of Israel. At first, there were just attacks on civilians once and a while, but the attacks became more and more ferocious, until it came to Israeli villages being heavily shelled by Syrian troops from the Golan Heights. Israel had warned Syria, but Syria came to Egypt for help, and by then, Egyptian forces were packed into the Sinai Penninsula. Nasser then closed down the Atrait of Tiran, which was a very important trading link between Israel and the other countries of the world. Such an act was an act of war, but what they didn't know was that Israel would react with full force.
    <edited spelling again>

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    Originally posted here by FrameWork
    From reading your article here, you seem to almost sit on both sides of the fence.
    Quite right. I don't support any of the violence - but I support both sides in the conflict. I support Israels right to safety, and I support the Palestinians right to have their land back. At the time it's not likely that Israel will get their safety, or the Palestinians get Palestine back. It's a no-win situation where both parts stick to what they know - fighting and conflict, instead of what's right - peacemaking.

    It wouldnt be a bid deal to do a sucicide bomb on a soldier, but i made it clear in my post that these are targeted against women and children. There is no justification for killing women and children.
    Yes I know what you wrote, and in my example from Norway civilians was also killed. Another example of terror against the Germans was the bombing of German cities where thousands of civilians died. But, I agree with you, killing civilinans is wrong. What I find interesting is how we do accept it in some cases, but not in other.

    this terror is about one thing antisemitism plain and simple
    Here we disagree. I don't think the average palestinian would be an antisemit if it wasn't for the occupation. My thought is that the occupation has triggered antisemetism. Of course some Palestinians would be antisemit anyway - but there are racists in every society.

    We all remember the 6 day war don't we
    Well, the Palestinians (and also the Israelis) are certainly paying for that know.
    ---
    proactive

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    I like your level headed responses proactive, you would make a great diplomat (and no that is not sarcasim, it's a compliment).


    Here we disagree. I don't think the average palestinian would be an antisemit if it wasn't for the occupation. My thought is that the occupation has triggered antisemetism. Of course some Palestinians would be antisemit anyway - but there are racists in every society.
    Fair enough, but how do you explain the vast antisitism running rampit across the Arab nations? This is not an isolated occurrence, it's wide spread, particularly in the Arab states.

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