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Thread: If You Can't Beat 'Em, Join 'Em

  1. #11
    AO Security for Non-Geeks tonybradley's Avatar
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    This whole thread- the RIAA vs. the P2P and congress making laws about technology they know nothing about which in turn makes legitimate security illegal, etc., etc.. has been done over and over and over.

    Threads about the DMCA, the Super-DMCA and all other aspects of this have been beat to death- I know, I have started many of them. The reason it keeps coming up though is because it keeps coming up (a subtle irony, I know).

    Seriously, as soon as we beat the subject to death a more idiotic bill is introduced. After we debate and hack that to death the RIAA starts a lawsuit against some 9 year old for downloading the latest Britney Spears song. Once we're done arguing the finer points on that issue some software vendor abuses the DMCA to threaten some legitimate security researcher with litigation if they actually publicize the flaws in the vendor's application. It goes on and on. They are all separate, but connected issues and they just keep coming.

    I have articles on almost all of these issues if you don't mind the pop-up hell at About.com (or if you have pop-up blocker protection which I would advise in any case). Along side my articles are links to other resources and articles on these subjects.

    Here are some links:

    Are You Breaking The Law? : An article on the state Super-DMCA laws lobbied by the MPAA

    Counter-Hacking: The Sequel : An article about Senator Hatch's statement that he would support allowing the RIAA or MPAA to destroy the computers of copyright violators

    If You Can't Beat 'Em, Join 'Em : An article about the P2P lobbying organization being started by the president of Grokster

  2. #12
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    Visiting my mother today, who is tech impaired, she had me take an old version of kazaa off her computer because she was reading the program was "written with blood". She also asked me to take out all other programs I installed because she said she will not tke the chance on being prosecuted for anything illegal i may have put there-I obliged removing the free version of zone alarm, the free version of avg, spybot search and destroy and a free popup blocker which works better (in my opinion) than any one you could pay for. i also removed open office and the free version of adaware along with some other utilities i used to increase her puters performance on an occasional visit. According to her there must be something wrong with it if it is free or it is immoral--she should be a spokesman for (dia)riaa and it was their nonsense which inspired her mania
    the only way to fix it is to flush it all away-tool

  3. #13
    0_o Mastermind keezel's Avatar
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    hmmm....that's no good. You could tell her that they make their money off of advertisment maybe? You should convince her that it's perfectly alright to use these free utilities because there are *reasons* that they are free....such as the people hope you'll get hooked and buy the full version but it's definately not a good idea to remove the firewall, AV, anti-spyware, and stuff like that.... I hadn't even thought of the RIAA's bs affecting people like that...

  4. #14
    Leftie Linux Lover the_JinX's Avatar
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    The RIAA and MPAA have their FUD war on full throttle again..

    I think it would be feasable to do something against them..

    How about some anti-monopoly thing ??

    The RIAA and MPAA have a monopoly on music.. Isn't that illegal ??

    just my (barely awake) statement atm..
    ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI.
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  5. #15
    AO Security for Non-Geeks tonybradley's Avatar
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    A good article from the Seattle times about the file-swapping / RIAA debate:

    Music File-Swapping Suits Could Backfire

  6. #16
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    Ironically, at least one member of the RIAA and MPAA has their hands in both cookie jars. While their lawyers fight alongside the RIAA and MPAA to ban P2P networks and bring litigation against universities and individuals for hosting or downloading illegal MP3’s, Sony also manufactures and sells the hardware and software used to do so.
    They market their NetMD portable mini-disc players with commercials advertising the speed with which it can “rip” the music off of a CD.
    An extremely two-faced approach.

    One needs to look at what associations members of associations have with other assiciations (whew! that was confusing...) to find little discrepencies such as the one above.

    It's difficult to weed out the little connections and contradictions but they are there sometimes.

    It does little to bolster their credability with the masses when these things are brought to our attention.
    [shadow]]I\'m not really here......
    You just think I am......[/shadow]

  7. #17
    Senior Member Maestr0's Avatar
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    "It seems odd that corporations who purposely facilitate illegal activity for a living are opening a Washington office to advocate their right to do so,"
    That's pretty funny coming from the same people who settled out of court because they had been price fixing for years. The same people who have been screwing the artists and collecting piles of money on behalf of other artists they have nothing to do with. Now, they wanna cry 'foul play' on these brutish immoral P2P networks? Hell, I'd have to pay the RIAA everytime I took a **** if they had their way. It's about the record companies refusal/in-ability to cope with a changing business model and FREE market. You cant close pandora's box once it's opened and resorting to biting the hand that feeds you(aka Sue everything that moves and isnt paying you for it) will have its consequence in the long run. Everyone crying about how p2p is hurting artists, BULLSHIT, the RIAA is hurting artists. THEY DONT CARE WHATS WRONG OR RIGHT, THEY JUST WANT YOUR MONEY, and apparently will do anything to get it.

    -Maestr0

    **** the RIAA and the MPAA
    \"If computers are to become smart enough to design their own successors, initiating a process that will lead to God-like omniscience after a number of ever swifter passages from one generation of computers to the next, someone is going to have to write the software that gets the process going, and humans have given absolutely no evidence of being able to write such software.\" -Jaron Lanier

  8. #18
    AO Security for Non-Geeks tonybradley's Avatar
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    This whole thread- the RIAA vs. the P2P and congress making laws about technology they know nothing about which in turn makes legitimate security illegal, etc., etc.. has been done over and over and over.

    Threads about the DMCA, the Super-DMCA and all other aspects of this have been beat to death- I know, I have started many of them. The reason it keeps coming up though is because it keeps coming up (a subtle irony, I know).
    And here is a case in point. Just when one aspect of the issue dies down another pops up.

    It seems that New Zealand legislators have chosen to follow in the inept footsteps of the U.S. Congress and create anti-hacking laws that are worded overly broad and fail to make sense from a technology point of view.


    Read the article here: Anti-Hacking Law Niggles Set In

  9. #19
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    Off the deepend here..... I am not usually a conspiracy type but....

    Making firewalls illegal etc, could lead to Americans only using government approved devices. Could that be the path of future technology? I mean I use a Pix firwall that doesn't support open Encryption like Kerberos. Radius is supported but it's not really open anymore, there are so many propriety extensions and technically Lucent owns it. So here is my paranoid point, I use TACACS+. It was developed my our government. Cisco changed the hell out of it and added the + but it's a government product.

    Then there is the FBI and it's initiatives to tap our internet connections. We are being silently and methodically placed under technological oppression. We all worry about the chinese and their governments control over internet access, but we are going down the same path, very slowly. Case point:

    Me. 1997 working in a major switching hub for a LARGE wireless telecommunications company. My job? Engineer massive build out of corridor access points along major highways in a tri-state region. This involved a large team of which I was part. Cell sites, switching equipment, control systems, billing systems and the data path to connect it all. This company named X uses a proprietary signalling system outside of the normal cell/wireless phone protocols that are standard. It's iDen, and that gives it away. VERY secure, in fact the government can't break it (at the time not sure current status) so MIB came one night and strong armed the installation of a small, get this - CISCO, box. It was a type of router that forcefully tapped the system before concentrators encrypted it for wireless transfer. It's basically at the switch where the audio is PCM and easy to tap. So there was their (G-man)access into a secure system with the ability to tap ANY cell phone WITHOUT the knowledge of the company who carries the personal subscription of a victim, cough - terrorist. They could even tap the CEO!

    Now I am not against the government tapping criminal behavior, but without warning and due process of law? I am outraged at that. I do have some faith in most insitutions of law and military (been on 100s of projects for both) but once in a while you run into a corrupt self centered bastard and they scare the hell out of me. There has got to be checks and balances or we are doomed. I say these things so people can be aware and watch for opportunities to express themselves publically, either through opionions or voting opportunities. We are ALL registered to vote right?


    sigh. I used to unplug it for fun btw. alot.
    West of House
    You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
    There is a small mailbox here.

  10. #20
    AO Security for Non-Geeks tonybradley's Avatar
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    I hadn't heard of this previously, but according to this article the P2P industry is trying to put forth a plan to initiate some sort of bonus tax on computer sales that would be used to compensate the RIAA for lost CD sales in exchange for the right to freely exchange songs protected by copyright.

    Sounds like it has a snowball's chance in hell. The RIAA will tell them to shove it up their ass and the people would scream bloody murder if they had to pay a bonus tax on all computer sales just so some small percentage of users could trade music illegally.

    FWIW- the RIAA is already compensated for the sale of blank CD's. They bitched when CDR drives became popular and wanted to ban the technology- knowing it would be used to copy CD's (even before the advent of P2P and MP3 downloads). Some congressman recently threw that back in their face during a hearing about further legislation. He basically said- "quit whining about lost CD sales. We already compensate you for that from the last time you whined."

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