Michigan education
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Thread: Michigan education

  1. #1
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    Michigan education

    Well if you are in Michigan make sure to write your congressmen and try and save your schools from becoming another national laughing stock. It seems some nut job has proposed a bill to push creationism in science classes. Personally I think they ought to at least attach a rider that involves forcing big bang theory and evolution to be taught in Sunday schools (good for the goose good for the gander). Hopefully this dies in comity.

    http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/new..._7_28_2003.asp
    Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?

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    That's not really surprising if you know that close to 50% of Americans (and all Muslims, too) refuse to believe Darwin's theories...

    Four of the representatives have Dutch names... that might explain it

  3. #3
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    There is more politics than science here, on both sides of the argument.

    Beneath such reactions lurk non-rational or moral factors for denying God’s existence. Not many scientists and thinkers are honest enough to admit this. One who was was Aldous Huxley. In his book Ends and Means, Huxley candidly wrote: ‘I had motives for not wanting the world to have a meaning. . . . For myself, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation, sexual and political.’
    http://www.stalbans.org.nz/Teachings...n/disc_beg.htm
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

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    I would still argue regardless of the individual politics of any given person that there is no reason to include creationism in a scienc class. Evolution = scientific thoery acceptable to be taught and debated in science class, ID = phlosaphy/thology save it for religion/philosaphy class.
    Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?

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    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    Evolutionists have lost the argument in the arena of free discussion, and, increasingly
    desperate, must fall back upon the law to force their views on unwilling people.
    We are forced to pay taxes to support their biased schools that only teach their narrow
    dogma. So much for being a "free" society.
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

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    I for one do not believe in the big bang theory.

    As you said rcgreen, evolutionists are becoming more desperate to force schools to teach that theory.
    =

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    It's a shame to see that some people are so narrow-minded that they refuse to let BOTH SIDES of an argument be heard. I can't help but deduce that you fear that your evolution argument is too weak to stand up to the challenge. Creationism is a valid theory.....just as much as you see evolution as a valid theory. Now if you are going to force the big bang into Sunday school you are opening the door for religion to get back into government and schools, which I seriously doubt that you want by the tone of your post.
    Al
    It isn't paranoia when you KNOW they're out to get you...

  8. #8
    0_o Mastermind keezel's Avatar
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    I don't know about other places, but there's a big push here in Ga. to have Creationism taught in public schools alongside the evolutionary theory. The biggest argument is that most of the time evolution is taught as fact...and it is also the only possibility that is being presented to children...I believe this in itself is wrong. (I also believe evolutionists are wrong...lol). Hell, I took a class that took every single piece of evidence that evolutionists use and the professor diddn't even dis-credit it...he showed how the evidence actually supports the theory of Creation better than it supports evolution (really, really impressive...took like a freakin hundred pages of notes but it was worth it). So based on what I know now, I think *at least* both should be taught in public schools everywhere. How did it get to be this way anyway? I mean how did it get to be where the only theory about our origin being taught in schools is evolution? I've heard some people's theories but I want to know what everyone at AO thinks.

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    Umm folks there isn't a both sides of the discussion here. evolution is a theory, testable, has some proof backing it up, may still be disproven. Can I say for absolute fact that evolution is how things work...no , but that’s the point. ID on the other hand relies on faith, it is the opposite of science, its superstion instead of searching for the truth you say..."wow this science stuff is hard I am too dumb to understand it and those people who do understand it make me feel bad....I say god made every thing happen and whoever disagrees is evil." In ID you don't search for the truth you hide from it ( note I didn’t say religion, which deals in the realm of the spiritual and metaphysical ).

    RC: last I checked evolution was taught in school by a consencious of educators and experts in the biology field ..its creationism that uses bureaucrats and politicos to force its way in.

    Until there are some proofs for the ID hypothesis it is nothing but superstition...as soon as some verifiable proof exists (as opposed to ”evolution is too hard to understand it must be wrong”) I will be the first to support it in our schools...until then it is out.

    Al: creationism isn't a theory it is a hypothesis...until there is evidence supporting it it can not be a theory. I think you may be confusing the definition of theory in the scientific sense with the definition of theory in the philosophical sense. As for my comment on Sunday school l.. that’s exactly what I wanted to say...biology has nothing to do with the existence of god. If evolution happened is a discussion for the realm of science, If god exists is a discussion for religious studies ..the too can coincide but are different in their methods and goals that they should not be combined. science = search for how the universe works be observation and experimentation. religion = belief without evidence based on faith. I would be just as upset if my kid learned about the big bang or evolution in Sunday school as I am about this crap.

    cheyenne1212 : luckily your beliefs do not set the rules for the universe...can I say for absolute fact that there was a big bang. no that’s the fun of science theories are always evolving. But I can show you some damm good evidence for its occurrence (if an observatory wouldn’t scare you too much as a tool of satin you can go in and listen to it). Then if we delve into theoretical math and physics I can show you some theories that show we may be living at the point of the big bang now...but those get *very* weird.

    Dose the big bang disprove the existence of god? NO> the existence of god is completely irrelevant to big bang/evolution/plat tectonics/math/science in general they can coexist peacefully, my suggestion to all of you is to let go of your fears and superstitions and go learn a little about your universe...I promise you wont go to hell or suddenly become an atheist by learning. My first suggestion would be to read “ The Universe in a nut shell” it goes over some of the major new theories in physics in terms that any one can understand (which is good super gravity and string theory loses my a lot of the time.).
    Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?

  10. #10
    0_o Mastermind keezel's Avatar
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    Think for a second.....I've seen both theories and both have lots of evidence to support them but since neither can be proven they *both* require faith.
    relies on faith, it is the opposite of science, its superstion instead of searching for the truth
    I wouldn't say it's superstition, and...people who look into the theory of evolution *or* Creation are searching for the truth.
    wow this science stuff is hard I am too dumb to understand it
    Dude I'm a science whiz...I make straight 100% on every single test/paper/whatever even in public universities. It's not hard to understand it at all, it's just that I prefer the Creation theory over evolution.
    you don't search for the truth you hide from it
    Heh, whatever.
    Until there are some proofs for the ID hypothesis it is nothing but superstition...as soon as some verifiable proof exists (as opposed to ”evolution is too hard to understand it must be wrong”) I will be the first to support it in our schools...until then it is out.
    I've seen zero "proof" of evolution that I personally can't take and use to support another theory just as easily. On a side note: if mutations are by definition are deformities and aren't genetic, then how the hell was evolution supposed to occur through mutations?
    Al: creationism isn't a theory it is a hypothesis...until there is evidence supporting it it can not be a theory.
    There is evidence. It is a theory.
    biology has nothing to do with the existence of god.
    Unless God created everything that is studied in biology....
    religion = belief without evidence based on faith.
    Evolution is based on faith bc there is no truth. There is evidence to support Creation.
    But I can show you some damm good evidence for its occurrence (if an observatory wouldn’t scare you too much as a tool of satin you can go in and listen to it).
    Actually I saw something yesterday where the scientists using the Hubble telescope are baffeled (sp?) bc as they look further out into the universe they are expecting to see galaxies when they are first coming into existence (something about the light from them just now reaching earth, so we should see their beginnings) but instead they are seeing fully formed galaxies. Wonder how that could be? Maybe because they were all created at the same time?
    they can coexist peacefully
    For most they can, but not for hard-core Bible believers that believe that the Bible is infallible. This is because the Bible says that it was all created as it is now by God...not that he made a big massive ball explode.
    my suggestion to all of you is to let go of your fears and superstitions and go learn a little about your universe...I promise you wont go to hell or suddenly become an atheist by learning. My first suggestion would be to read “ The Universe in a nut shell” it goes over some of the major new theories in physics in terms that any one can understand (which is good super gravity and string theory loses my a lot of the time.).
    Very good idea. I think I'll read that book just because I have an interest in the field. (just bc I'm a Creationist doesn't mean I don't like science, or that I don't like reading about all the new theories. It just means I like to see how even though evolutionists try to prove their point, they just end up accidentally proving mine.) Thanks for providing such a great discussion and let's *please* not let this get into any flame wars or anything.

    -keezel

    P.S. I look forward to futher discussion.

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