Associates in Programming or Networking?

[Juridian]

Again, depends on who and what. In general, yes there is a separation at alot of companies. But that is not always true....and does not change the fact that programmers with an in depth knowledge of networking are needed in some areas. One such area is developing tools used by networking and network security professionals. There are others as well. I believe it is best to say that in your experience, it is that way. In my experience, there are exceptions and to even promote a division is silly. It isn't incredibly difficult to get an understanding of:

1) Network Operations
2) Data Communications
3) Network Implementation
4) Network Design/architecture (LAN/WAN infrastructure)
5) LAN administration
6) Network Management
7) Network Security

While you will usually not need an in depth knowledge of the configuration of a cisco router, or how to correctly configure a windows 2k dns server (or bind), an understanding of it all from at least the network+ level will help you alot. An understanding of network communications, name resolution, and firewalls can help you figure out why your application (regular app, web app, web service) does not work correctly in your environment. An understanding of system and network security principles can help you set up your development and test environment correctly if you have to do it yourself (which is often the case in my experience). It can also help you when setting up the security for your application for everything from the way it interacts with the firewall to the user authentication methods.

As for design/architecture/implementation....will your application work with a clustered sql server? Web servers behind a bigIP box? Will the web applications talk to an application server? How will all of this react using the technologies chosen, the current code architecture proposed, and the protocols involved?

In a smaller team or one off project the dev may be the person setting up that initial proof of concept environment.

It all depends.

[Valor]

Well, I do really want to study both areas, but I was trying to decide which would look better as a degree. Once I get the Associates degree, which I'm still leaning towards Programming, I will continue and get a Bachlelor's in Information Systems Security, which is definitely my ultimate goal. The core curriculum for the ISS degree consists of the following classes, all 4 credits each:

Internetworking Infrastructure and Operations
Information Security Essentials
Software Project Management Essentials
Security Architecture of Common IT Platforms
IS Risk Management and Intrusion Detection
Fundamentals of Network Security, Firewalls and VPNs
Hacker Techniques, Tools and Incident Handling
Information Security Perspective on Intranet, Internet and E-Commerce Infrastructure
Security Policies and Implementation Issues
Auditing E-Commerce Systems and IT Infrastructure
User Authentication Systems and Role-Based Security
System Forensics Investigation and Response
Securing Windows Platforms and Applications
Securing Linux Platforms and Applications
Legal and Security Issues

and finally, the Capstone Project, which involves a demonstration of the information studied in the core program courses. The assigned project contains a typical scenario involving setting up and securing both intranet and Internet/e-commerce systems for an organization. Students may choose an individual or team project to develop and implement an enterprise wide IS Security Policy and Plan. Students will also audit the project of another student or team.

Thanks for any input guys.

[gunit0072003]

Juridian ,

No one is disagreeing with the fact that knowing both is more beneficial than knowing one over the other.

Again the term "networking" is used loosley..Your example of setting up a small LAN is not a good depiction of different areas /skills needed to entering the vast arena of networking.

"Take some time, get a couple of cheap boxes and a home networking kit. Build your own setup and see how you feel about it. Grab some free compilers and a couple of good books (pm me for suggestions if you like....) and write some code....see how you like that. It's better to waste $300 on a test environment that will help you make a decision sooner and that you will be able to use for practice for class work than to waste $7,000 and find out you do not like the type of work."

Let's be honest here, There is sooo much technology out there and soo many areas of specialties that as a beginner, it is best to know which route you want to take from the beginning so it doesn't become overwelming and eventually intimidate the individual.

Just take for example working strictly with WAN technologies, you have:

1)ATM
2)Frame-Relay
3) X.25
4)IP, IPX,Appletalk,DecNet,
5) Various routing protocols, and not just supporting 10, 20 or even 100 nodes, more like
2500+ routers using sophisticated complex routing protocols as BGP4, IS-IS,and OSPF
6)DWDM
7)SONET
8)Voice over IP
9)Multicast routing and QoS
10) and on and on and on,,,,,,,

Ive only touched on Wide area network technologies and in all, you do not need to understand how software is coded in order to excell in area,,,

I didnt want to turn this into a pissing contest but the point here is, an individual should first understand what areas of specialties exist out there that employers are looking for that require:

1)strictly programming /coding skills
2) strictly designing/implementing/supporting and troublshooting network skills
or other areas as you have mentioned where
3) Doing a little of both..

Once a student understands the Job market and the demand that exist out there, the time/resources/money/ needed to aquire such skills and the salary structure for the various positions, then, I believe it makes it much easier to make a decision on what route to take....


Cheers.

[Juridian]

I think our problem exists in the way we are reading each others points...

In the end I believe we are both saying that you (Valor) should explore your options as much as possible. Look at the different areas and specializations of both, the job market, explore the technologies a little on your own, etc so you can make a more informed decision.

Both programs at ITT teach a little bit of the other anyways so if you decide that you want to switch at any time a portion of the classes will transfer so it won't be a total loss.

[gunit0072003]

well said !!

[breakology]

It really does'nt matter what you study in college, the thing about college is that you will learn more about theory than actual practical knowledge. If you like writing code then that may be the way to go, but I should tell you that all the good coders I know never took a college class, for the most part, they were self taught. So unless you LIKE writing code I would'nt go that way. Networking is really the same way, it is a mostly self-taught skill as well.
I can learn more by sitting in front of my box for a week than I ever learned in a semester of classroom instruction. I know you have heard this answer form most everyone that responded to your post, but it really comes down to what you enjoy the most. Don't worry about what kind of degree is going to "look" the best because ultimatly it won't matter.
Chances are your first job will be sitting at help desk anyway, and in the IT field, experience matters more than degrees.
Good luck with whatever avenue you decide.

[MSgtN]

If you all don't mind me putting my two cents in, as a Technical recruiter (Network Engineer/Architect in my former life), I would definitely recommend the programming, even if it's in addition to the Network skills. Over the last two years, I've noticed allot more positions termed "Network/Systems Engineer/Admin" with more advanced programming skills. I'll agree with Juridian's statement that [gloworange]"I'd suggest you get a well rounded education of both areas since that will make you more useful than someone who has only studied one."[/gloworange] Companies are looking for "multifaceted" people, who have crossed over to other disciplines of the IT industry.

[Valor]

Yeah, I think my knowledge of networking is quite sufficient, but it's all self taught. Later on in the program I'll have some 'formal' training. I've pretty much decided to go with programming though, as I think it will complement the security skills nicely, and companies will hopefully greatly accept the "multifaceted" package of skill I can bring to them. Thanks a bunch guys!

[ShagDevil]

I found this Q1/Q2 2001 (I know, I know, It's 2 years old) Market Snapshot that does a salary range comparison for Tech related jobs. I don't know if these salaries are still pertinent but I figured maybe it could give you a glimpse into some idea of the salary market. Check it out if you think it will help you in your decision making process. Good Luck.

Tech Salary Comparison 2001

[bongpilot]