Thwy are not like us.

[rcgreen]

AMMAN, Jordan, Sept. 8 (UPI) -- Jordan's parliament voted Monday to reject imposing harsher punishments for men who kill female relatives in what are known as "honor killings".

The BBC said it was the second time since June's elections that the lower house, the Chamber of Deputies, quashed such a bill. Honor killings are mostly committed by brothers and fathers against women who have had sex outside of marriage

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breakin...5810-6806r.htm

I'm sorry, but the Islamic world has a lomg way to go before they
can be accepted as part of the civilized world. They are still functioning
somewhere back a couple of centuries B.C.

We have "hate crimes" laws that increase the penalties for violence
aimed even at strangers, but they don't have the balls to stop
guys from murdering their wives or sisters for a sexual indiscretion.

Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers?

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/k...2&byte=4800788

Now, some expert, tell me there is no difference between Islam and Christianity.
Be objectice. You may not subcsribe to the Christian religion yourself, but you
benefit from living in a society that is influenced by it.

Which place would you prefer to live, Jordan or some evil "oppressor" nation
like the USA?

[NeuTron]

I agree with most of what you said........but there are still people who kill in the name of God today in the US. Abortion doctors and homosexuals are killed all the time from people who quote the bible. Jordan sure does have a long way to come though, no doubt.
-NeuTron

[bballad]

There are plenty of christian fundementaists that ascribe to an eye for an eye mentality, just look at the nut jobs killing OB/GYN's. You cannot compare the laws of a ****ry ruled be fundimentalists to the laws of a country set up with sane secular laws. If the religious right ever has full sway in this country, and bases this countries laws after then ten comandments we will be in the exact same boat as Jordan. When they can seperate church and state their country wil be much better off, if we lose that seperation we will be much worse off.

[Ennis]

The basic principles they live by such as family etc. are the same as 'ours', ever hear of solidarity, I am surprised somebody would post something like this...

[whizkid2300]

Ok the underlining theroes of both religions are pretty much the same.

Now let's take it this way.
Who has a lower crime rate, Us or Them.

Just as a hint, it aint the Christians, you know why because people are terrified to commit a crime.

Let me ask you something.

If you were hungary and you knew that if you stole some bread you were either going to die or get you hand cut off. What would you do.

I personally would be one hungary ass person.

Now the different therois that seperate the 2 areas are simple one is a little stricter.
Now if we are going to judge let's go backa few years where if you cheated on your husband he had the right to take care of you himself. I am talking about America for that instance.

Now you think that was fair.

Now let's keep going, you talk about civilisced let's look at the race card again, Hum... I don't remember reading in the Paper about a Muslim being drug down the Highway.

IMHO you can't argue this one because, it's the pot calling the Ketal black.
We have dirt they have dirt. Doesn't make us better then them, doesn't make them better then us.

Jizz

[RoadClosed]

Does everyone forget that Muslim and Christian faiths abide by the same book, the 1st testament? In fact Muhammad recognized Jesus as a cool dude, but not the savior. Our bible stories are the same as theirs up until a certain point. Our holy cities are also theirs, up until that same point. And let’s not leave out the Jewish people, who control a lot of access to holy sites that they also share with US (US = Christian majority society) and the Muslims. Like it or not, there are a lot of similarities. In truth they hold closer ties to the original faith and word of god. I don't agree with it and their motives, but if you look at it from the commandment views, and God’s law; then who holds god in a higher status?

Fortunately most Christians and the West have chosen to hold basic human rites to a higher status, perhaps the teachings of Christ got through to some people? To these Muslin people the worse thing you can do to a family is have a woman desecrated by sex outside of marriage. (THE WORST) It's like the United States was in the 50s with females getting pregnant in school. They were shamed and humiliated, their families were shamed and they were removed from public education and left to fend for themselves. Was that mentality based on the laws of the state or religious beliefs?

Imagine if you were in a situation where there was no state or government to step in and intervene, because all levels of government and media are controlled by the people who have the same radical religious views.

In my personal view on the subject, honor killings are mostly by accident. It's no secret that the most fundamental of Middle Eastern societies are extremely violent to women. After all; the bible holds females in LOW esteem anyway. A lot of men do not intentionally want to kill; they get insanely angry at the female for completely destroying the man's and his families position in the community that they kill the female. Like we do to our own spouses out of rage and anger, but over there she is an abomination of God. The sad thing is; it’s OK over there. The leaders, who make the laws and report the events, understand where the man is coming from. This only happens in the violent dictator countries. You have to understand, these places are like the Wild West, there is not a whole lot of control at lower levels.

Not all Muslim countries are like Iraq and Iran. Some have parliamentary governments and women are treated much better, on the level of our own country in the 60s or 70s. They are working on it. For the countries stuck in oppressive radical regimes, they have no hope while the party is in power. People in the US have a small understanding of the world. We are rich and powerful and have a lot of resources but we are SMALL. The world is a large place and societies with a much larger population than we have, do things radically different. If it wasn’t for nuclear weapons, I think the world would have a much different landscape.

I find a lot of my Christian friends trying to incite and destroy an already fragile understanding of the Islamic Faith and those people in that area of the world. They do so with a vengeance and hatred that I just can’t understand. Maybe it’s the similarities that distress them; maybe it’s the extreme differences? When I try and ask, I get a response that is something along the lines of “Those heathen bastards should all die anyway.” Guess what, they are not going away and after 30 years of watching this, I am not sure we can ever come to a peaceful resolution without eliminating the forces that retain oppressive governments on this planet.

Most deep seeded religious beliefs are either seeded because of some life changing event, mental illness or lack of education. I am talking about the deep seeded radical views and for most of the world’s population I think a lack of even basic education is a key factor. If we can’t reach a solution, we won’t destroy our societies out of greed or power, it will be over god and its simplest belief structure.

[bballad]

RoadClosed, replace "every one" with "undimentalist christians" on this board and youwill be right, most of us here agree with you. Oh and replace "not all countries are like Iraq and Iran" with "not all countries are like Saudi Arabeia and Iran" Iraq was a secular nation with very liberal laws once you got past that whole dictator thing, thats why alquida and the rest of the fundimentalist islamic sects hated hussain.

[keezel]

there are still people who kill in the name of God today in the US. Abortion doctors and homosexuals are killed all the time from people who quote the bible.

That's very true, and very sad. Every Christian I know thinks that people who kill over abortion and homosexuality are morons......murder is a really crappy way of trying to solve any issue.

When they can seperate church and state their country wil be much better off, if we lose that seperation we will be much worse off.

This statement made me think....it's a dangerous statement but it's true. The dangerous part is that church and state should be seperated but both *need* to exist....and maybe not even be totally seperated. I mean not seperated in the sense that just because morality pertains more to religion, it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be a fundamental part of our government and law. I think that both church and state need to exist and both need to share strong morals.....and the morals don't *have* to come from the Bible but I believe the Bible presents some really good morals and it should be considered very heavily.

Now, some expert, tell me there is no difference between Islam and Christianity.

The big fact that (true)Christians believe that Jesus is God and that Muslims do not is such a huge fundamental difference that the two religions shouldn't even be compared.....perhaps the differing morals or something should be compared, but they (the religions) are fundamentally different and not based on the same thing at all.

Does everyone forget that Muslim and Christian faiths abide by the same book, the 1st testament?

The Jewish religion (Judaeism...sp?) abides by the 1st (Old Testament), Christians abide by the New Testament but draw some stuff from the OT (like morals and code of conduct...and *most* of the OT still applies today but the NT over-rides some stuff), and Muslims abide by the Koran.

*edit*

John 8:1 - 11 (ish).
Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers?

/me wonderz why the first part of verse 6 is phrased as it is. I like "They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him." as it is in the NIV, but it's just a personal preference thing.

I had to go back and read that again. I wasn't really sure what you meant by it, but it's a great demonstration of how the OT and NT differ, and how the NT over-writes the OT in some cases like this one. The NT is (obviously) completely based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, and here Jesus was in complete disagreement with OT law, and since He is God, he has that power. This is also a great passage to study when learning about God's mercy... You can see how the OT law commanded that she be stoned, and you can clearly see how Jesus's new covenant replaces the old covenant that was given to Moses in the OT. A professor once made some interesting guesses at what Jesus was writing in the dirt....the most interesting hypothesis was that he was writing out some of the sins that had been committed by the people in the crowd, but it's only a guess....

Re-edit: Added book, chapter, and verse.

[rcgreen]

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?o...6E1F58F2CD5FB6

[Tachyon]

Just a quick reply to something RoadClosed said:

I find a lot of my Christian friends trying to incite and destroy an already fragile understanding of the Islamic Faith and those people in that area of the world. They do so with a vengeance and hatred that I just can’t understand. Maybe it’s the similarities that distress them; maybe it’s the extreme differences? When I try and ask, I get a response that is something along the lines of “Those heathen bastards should all die anyway.”

Funny how people can call themsleves *of one religion* but then say and believe something that totally goes against said religion.

Christ was a healer, not a warrior. Sounds like your "Christian" friends are turning to old Islamic tales of Allah destroying the "heathen bastards" that are anyone other then Muslims.

For their sake RoadClosed, maybe you should re-educated them on what it is to be a CHRISTian. Christ won his disciples back in the day by healing and freeing, as I understand it Muhammed won his with an iron fist.

Now I know I'm clearly showing my religious beliefs here, but the point of my post is that it is people like your friends that are starting to 'muddy the waters' so to speak. And they might not even know they are doing it. To introduce such hatred into a 'system' that was supposed to be centered around love and forgiveness cannot be productive in any religion/society

Anyway I'm babbling