October 13th, 2003, 03:22 PM
Catch: Allow me please......
Girls and Boys, And Nate especially... 'cos I get a horrible feeling you are one of the culprits!!!!:
I've been chatting with Catch in the background here and our discussion gives clear indication to me that there are _even_ more 9 years old attending this forum than even I thought possible.
Comments such as these are inevitably the product of a juvenile mind losing a war of wits and words with an adult. They are also thrown around from the warm and safe place - "behind the monitor"...... WTF people..... You wouldn't say that **** to my face, (I guarantee it), and you probably don't have the balls to say it to Catch's face either..... So why say it?
"Maybe you might have time to learn what real security is if you pulled Bill's dick out of your mouth for 2 seconds."
"You prolly don't even have a job and live with your mommy so you can spend all your time 'learning' about computers, too bad you just read M$ bullshit."
I get the feeling that I brought some of this on Catch myself by arguing with him regarding his attitude and I apologize to you for that Catch. My only defense is that I thought I was playing in the adult sandbox and I find I am in the kindergarten sandbox instead - and my actions may have led the puerile amongst us to not play well with the other kids.
You children, and you know who you are - need to get away from your computer screens for a while and go and learn some manners and respect - not the least, self respect!
If you actually read everything that Catch said, (let alone try to comprehend it), at no point did he say that M$ was a _better_ operating system..... He simply refuted the insufferable bullshit written by someone who has done nothing more than listen to *nix proaganda and then have the timerity to publish the crap for others with nothing better to do than bash another OS simply because it isn't "theirs".
I hesitate to say this girls and boys - but WTF - it's my nature to be a tad outspoken.......
Learn from me!!!!!! I disagreed with Catch - not with the substance - but with the delivery.... But at no time was I disrespectful, rude or condescending..... And I sure as **** didn't lower myself to the kindergarten level like some of you clearly have no problem doing......
Nate: Only by the grace of your god did Catch get to respond to the utter trash you posted as "fact" before I got the chance. He probably only beat me to it because it took me so frigging long to pick myself up off the floor from laughing at it......
To those of you that made those comments:
Right now I want to say to "if you people took Torvalds balls outta your ears and listened for five frigging seconds you might learn something".... But I won't.... I'm more adult than that.....
You need to learn..... a lot..... before you start playing with the "big boys". You certainly need to broaden your horizons..... Your narrow little tunnel vision may suit you now but when you get into high school you may find the "big boys" aren't as nice as they are here.
JupMedia: If you are listening..... You can determine who these puerile children are..... They are a detriment to this community and therefore a threat to your bottom line..... I for one would not lose a second's sleep if you banned them and their 9 year old insults forever.....
Thank you for your time........
Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
\"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides
October 13th, 2003, 03:30 PM
I've gone over this thread and have a quick question: didn't Microsoft attempt a while a "secure OS" but found that it was unuseable (not use-friendly or even smart admin friendly)?? Or was that a myth?
Regardless at this point the specific of how Microsoft is going to create their "new OS", at least they are looking into doing it. Which is better than other OSes out there. People will use Microsoft products and if Microsoft can create an OS that will help mitigate some of the problems, well, kudos to them and good luck.
October 13th, 2003, 05:19 PM
Back on track
Great, MS is going to improve the security of windows. But they started this a couple of years ago with their Trustworthy Computing Initiative. Nothing really happened....
Again a couple of years ago they completely rewrote windows (windows 2000), remember that? I don't know how MS developers program but if I give a problem to 10 developers I get 10 (different) solutions back. How the hell did they manage to get the exact same problems originaly in pre-NT4 systems in this 'newly' written OS. This will only happen if they didn't rewrite it (maybe time constrains?) and probabely cut 'n pasted alot from the pre-NT4 OSs.
My point? I don't believe anything MS says anymore. Most of it turns out to be BS.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
October 13th, 2003, 07:47 PM
MS has only released 1 OS since they have adopted their trustworthy computing initiative.. These kind of things don't just happen overnight. Even in that one particular OS, Win2k3 server, the default installation has been hardened considerably. You can't really have expected them to make major changes in the OS when it was almost into beta code by the time they announced their new initiative.
Dealing with MS on a day to day basis I can say I have definitely seen a change in the way they handle themselves when it comes to security.
October 13th, 2003, 09:58 PM
MsMittens... thanks, this gives me an idea for a tutorial.
SirDice, believe what you like but Win2ks capabilities and assurances have constantly been improving. Please don't make the same mistakes as the fellow that had his articles pasted by thinking that a secure default configuration is a good thing. (Which is really all the security issues you ever hear about with Windows)
Also keep in mind that windows is over 10,000,000 lines of code, rewrites don't happen over night. (mohaughn already stated this.)
October 13th, 2003, 11:24 PM
Jeesh! Can't we all just get along? Windows has its perks and its disadvantages it's main perk for me is it's so easy to use. *nix can be hard to learn and use and I found it to be not to fun to use when I was an admin in college. They are both good just depends what you want to do with em.
October 14th, 2003, 12:27 AM
Heck, I use windows everyday I have been working with DOS and 3.1 gradually upgrading to XP. Also did and do all windows server versions. I have to admit alot has been approved.
To me it looks like a shiny sportscar with all the chrome, wings, tuning etc. With all that added weight it needs (and usually has) a pretty decent engine to make it run fast and look smooth. Unfortunately the chassis is all rotten and somebody needs to rip it out and replace it. Easier said then done
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
October 14th, 2003, 01:06 AM
It is not a matter of getting along or what has its plus and minuses, it is a matter of getting past all the misinformation out there.
Jeesh! Can't we all just get along?
This is just a statement made to avoid the issue at hand, which would no longer be an issue if people ever were capable of an objective conversation on the subject. It seems to come down to misinformation and avoidance, why do you think that is?
They are both good just depends what you want to do with em.
I am curious, what design issues do you feel NT has? I never see any arguments beyond the efault configuration so I am curious about this.
Unfortunately the chassis is all rotten and somebody needs to rip it out and replace it. Easier said then done
October 14th, 2003, 01:20 AM
Your right in the fact that their is a lot of mis-information out there and that does need to be clarified. Though I am not the on to be flouting the advantages and disadvantages of any system because everyone is going to have their own opinions regardless. Same as "Ford sucks, Chevy rules!!" type arguments. Just look up for your own the facts and try both OS's pick the one that you like and feels right. That's all I can tell you.
October 14th, 2003, 01:27 AM
My point is that until you get past the "they both have points" can you actually have good information for people to make those choices on.
It is unrealistic to expect you average admin or user or really most people to have the amount of experience and education I have in OS design and system architecture issues. Which is why I even got into this conversation in the first place.
Also, be warned... not all systems are equal. Some systems are in fact objectively better than others in every/nearly every functional real world role. And where security is concerned, it is very easy in fact to quantifiably rank systems as to what is more secure than what. A lack of understand as to how this is done, doesn't make it any less true.