View Poll Results: Should Microsoft quit paying crackers to do this ****?

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  • Yes

    2 25.00%
  • No

    2 25.00%
  • Gore your so cool. I'm a girl and I want your ass.

    4 50.00%
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  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    how can you go out and buy a new graphics card or any add on card for that matter without checking whats in your box. sure, integrated mobos suck but thats the way they bring the cost down and giving users all the things they want. you lose the flexibility but gain in terms of a cheaper price. also integated systems are less likely to cause prblems with conflicting hardware and stuff liek that. all depends on what you are looking for. I prefer seperate parts for myhome systems. but for the office where i have to support 200 + users its much better to have an integrated system cos its much more uniform throughout the enterprise and easier to support.

    like catch said, all systems wil be moving towards more and more integration. its seems inevitable. there will only be the techs and hobbyists who will want seperates.

  2. #12
    The Recidivist
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    The box I was talking about is a fairly un-used machine so I never really had a reason to check it out. Its actually my girls machine that I have hooked up to the LAN. But I agree, I should have known. As for the comment to the intergrated parts = faster machine. Maybe in some cases, yes. But 95% of the intergrated machines on the consumer market are there for 2 reasons; Vender Dependibility and quick turn around by consumers on new machines so that they can stay current.

    "Where the tree of knowledge stands, there is always paradise": thus speak the oldest and the youngest serpents.
    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Originally posted here by gore
    I bought an Nvidia E-GEFORCE 2 MX 400 Video card today with 64 MBs, I pop the case off and SUPRISE! The slot for graphics upgrades doesnt fit for the card. Its too small.
    Gore> I see from your profile you're running an HP pavillion PIII 733 Mhz? I think I know what the problem is.

    I recently bought a new mobo (Celeron PIII 800 upgrade to P4 2.4) and SURPRISE! My old graphics card wouldn't fit anymore. It was too big. The reason is because older AGP cards run on 3V DC, and newer ones run on 1.5V DC (or vice versa, I can't remember which way). If you had placed that new shiny video card in that old dusty mobo, you would have fried it. It's designed that way to be idiot-proof. If it wasn't for that difference, I would have fried my new shiny NVIDIA Geforce 2 64MB video card too. Basically, your mobo is too old for you video card.

    One more question... did you buy an AGP or a PCI card?
    Government is like fire - a handy servant, but a dangerous master - George Washington
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  4. #14
    The Recidivist
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Hey I didn't even notice you had a hp gore. Kinda ironic.

    The box I was talking abotu is a 900mhz HP Pavilion 7200

    Damn hp's :P

    "Where the tree of knowledge stands, there is always paradise": thus speak the oldest and the youngest serpents.
    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Lastly Cutty... did you miss the part where I said that with these systems for now and for some time in the future you still have the option of using third party sound/video/etc cards if you so desire. So what is the problem?
    The problem is, in some cases (and that's not rare at all) when a part on a mobo goes it usually takes the entire mobo with it. The more integration the more likely the mobo will go bad faster hence decreasing the life span of the mobo. I just think that sucks but as you said it's the way the market is going.

    It would be better for a lot of average users but I don't have to like it. And in truth I don't.

    - The mind is too beautiful to waste...

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    I am sorta indifferent. I see both sides of the arguement. I have a Dell, yes I know you can piss on my writhing corpse on the ground, but if you don't want it integrated you can specify or, you can build your own box. I have built boxes before and I loved them, but the **** would sometimes not work or there would be conflicts. But, I have a Dell and I have never had a problem with it. I just ordered it so that the graphics card wasn't integrated. NIC cards are no big deal, because you can always throw another one in. But I am fine with it being integrated for the reason it smooths things out and since that machine doesn't run linux it makes it easier on the techies when I find problems with their frieken hardware ...


  7. #17
    Regal Making Handler
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Everything on the mobo, is the way the big manufaturers like Dell, HP etc inhibit us from upgrading our pc's, this is just good business as we are forced to bye new rather than upgrading. Hardware is not the onlyway eighther, I have heard of Bios updates that reduse the amount of ram that a board will handle. Perhaps i'm overly synicle But how many of us has had a new Television or Video that has gone bang two days after the warrenty has expired.

    Catch; i'm not so sure the desktop is a dying market, sure there is a slowdown in sales but i think that is due to people upgrading and making there kit last longer. I think people have got wise to the fact that they don't need to bye a new pc every 12 months.
    What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad. - Dave Barry

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    One thing that I allways do, is to buy a computer in parts and then build it together at home. This way is much cheaper then buy a ready made computer at the store, and another point is that you can choose your own hardware.

    The most ready made computers from for example Dell or Acer have other hardware slots which are only compatible with the hardware of the manufacturer, and not with standardized hardware.
    [shadow]OpenGL rules the game[/shadow]http://www.AntiOnline.com/sig.php?imageid=499

  9. #19
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    United Kingdom: Bridlington
    Hi Guys, an interesting thread.

    I have encountered Gore's problems on several occasions. Generally because the User has gone and bought the component themselves

    In Gore's case I cannot work out if he has bought a PCI videocard, or if it is a videocard that does not fit his AGP slot. If it is a PCI card, it will still work if he has a spare PCI slot, but they only run at 33Mhz as opposed to the 66MHz of the AGP slot.

    If it is AGP and does not fit, then there are two possibilities:

    1. It is the wrong voltage (as already explained)
    2. The MoBo and video card are at the extreme ends of their manufacturing tolerances. I recently bought two identical 56.6 PCI modems. One fitted a box when the other one did not, yet fitted perfectly into another machine I was upgrading! This is not uncommon when installing memory upgrades using cheap generic components, in my experience.

    As for integrated systems:

    1. They are fine for a cheap office/second box or for a kid's first computer. If you buy one of these because of budget constraints, make sure the MoBo has the capability of being upgraded to what you want the box to be when you can afford it. I doubt if the difference will be more than $10? A mate of mine complained about this to me a couple of weeks ago.......he had just "discovered" that the MoBo he had bought didn't even have an AGP slot!

    2. They are a problem, in that if one component fails, you cannot fix it unless you either add a dedicated card or replace the whole MoBo. All your "eggs are in one basket" so to speak.

    3. They are generally reliable, as you know that all the components are compatible.

    As for ready made systems, I have a 2 Dells, an IBM and a Digital. I have had no difficulty in upgrading any of them, but I know to check for compatibility first (restoring old computers is a hobby of mine). I agree with those who say you should build your own, because then you are in control of what you get AND its potential for upgrades.

    For a budget solution I like old ex-corporate desktops. This is because they have very standard and basic components, and generally have a good capacity for upgrading. Their very idea is that a basic system is bought in bulk, and the Corporation upgrades the ones they need for special applications/users . They tend to support any additional components that are on the market, not just those from the manufacturer. In this respect I have found IBM to be the best and Dell the worst. I also do not like Dell's tendency to supply a "castrated" BIOS!

    Just a few thoughts on the subject.

    BTW. Gore, I shall come to you for help next time I need to word a customer satisfaction survey


  10. #20
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001


    Integrated components are a very good thing.
    That depends on whether you are selling a 74 ford pinto...
    or the fool who buys it.

    The dektop is a dying market, the only reason people still buy desktops is because for equal cost they can currently get more power.
    not to mention the fact that laptops were invented by SATAN!
    Have you hung around on these forums long enough to hear
    all the sorry tales of woe coming from the unfortunate souls
    who want help with their laptops?

    If God had wanted you to own a laptop, he would have surgically
    embedded in in your brain... but wait, that's the next growth
    business. Losta money to be made!

    You wouldn't be a used car salesman would you?
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

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