Drugs

[fourdc]

I've got a "libertarian" view on drugs/alcohol and the other vices. As long as your "sins" don't cost me, feel free.

I don't want to have to pay for your lung, liver or whatever transplants.

[gore]

Originally posted here by volcanic
People are stupid(er) when they are on drugs, and can effect others lives greatly, and usually in a very dramatic way, such as, obviously, by killing, harming, or neglecting them.

Hmm, not with Opiates. It's already been proven Opiates dont **** with your ability too think logically, if anything they increase it. For my arguement look in the non sencical thread where I so far am winning this debate because well, tidal phase, and everyone else, have yet to actually prove a damn thing.

I asked a few questions to Mr. clean tidal phase and instead of answering he went to name calling. Oh well, I guess simple minds do that when they cant reply with anything because you totally blew away every arguement they made.

Well, to quote NOFX:
God made plants and buds that I find and I use, then who the **** are YOU to judge me?

I do Opiates, thats it, and I wont do Heroin because I know it will feel TOO good. Tidal, your still a hypocrit, saying people should only do drugs for medical reasons and then saying you get drunk. Alcohol is a drug too, its also addictive, and it impairs you WAY more than any Opiate. you dont see me standing here smoking a Ciggarette saying dont smoke its bad for you.

tidal, Im STILL waiting for you to prove me wrong with the bullshit you were brainwashed to believe about drugs. Oh, and remember, you cant drink anymore because I dont think Iv ever seen a medical condition that required you to be drunk. And remember your cut off from sex and masturbation too. An Orgasm is a drug, You jack off instead of jacking up to get the same result, a great feeling. Masturbation is a recreational use for this drug, and so is sex unless your creating a child.

Heh, tidal your like the equiv of someone whos never drank before telling everyone they are morons and scum because they drink. Alcohol is a legal drug thats allowed to be used for recreation, even though drinking and driving kills more people than drugs.

A drunk driver killed the bass player for Acid Bath, one of my favorite bands. The drunk bastard hit them on the road, killing him, his Mom, his Dad and putting his little brother in ICU. But its ok according to you, because drinking isnt dangerouse like horrible drugs right?

In ancient times, the Pharoes banned booze, not pot or Opium, back in the day YOU would be the criminal, not me.


Hmm, Powertoad, Dont like me either huh?

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Ok, I'm copying and pasting the arguement from the other thread for everyone to read. The first part where the arguement began was here:

"Originally posted here by TidaLphasE23
gore, what a dickhead, you come across trying to promote drugs as a good
thing, wake up to yourself, if you need painkillers to overcome an injury or
illness, fine, but don't promote them as fun goose. I got so sick of dirty junky
scum beggin for change and smokes, while i was catching the train home from
work. When dirty junky ****in heroin addicts can't get enough money for their
next hit, they will rob and bash old ladies for cash just to shoot up scag. They
should be shot on site, or at least beaten sensless. They begg for sympathy, saying
they have an addiction, Their Choice, ****in scum dogs. Why don't you post the down
sides of drug use, instead of making out it's all fun ****wit. Like i said, if you need these
painkillers to combat pain and suffering fine, just don't bragg about your own use like it's
something people, young people should maybe try, because you do it. Set an example
and act your age.. And if others think that i am out of line, stating the facts, you should
all see the effects of drug use on the poor innocent old ladies that get mugged by these
scum of the earth fukin vermin."



Nice huh? I replied with this:



"Ohhhhhhhh bitch...

Ok, lets take this **** you said apart and I can reply to each part of it.
quote:
gore, what a dickhead, you come across trying to promote drugs as a good
thing, wake up to yourself, if you need painkillers to overcome an injury or
illness, fine, but don't promote them as fun goose.


They ARE a good thing. People were made to do drugs. In the 1970s they discovered that the human brain has a part of it for the specific use of Opiates. This year they discovered a part of your brain which serves only in the processing of THC. ?I dont smoke pot but I know its not as dangerouse as those stupid commercials on TV.

Opium, I'll stick up for that daily, God made all living things, it wasnt no ****ing big bang. And God made the poppy plant. Grab a Bible and open up to Genisis 1-29, ALL SEED BEARING PLANTS. That includes Opium. God said I can use it if I want, who the **** are YOU to judge me?

quote:
I got so sick of dirty junky
scum beggin for change and smokes, while i was catching the train home from
work. When dirty junky ****in heroin addicts can't get enough money for their
next hit, they will rob and bash old ladies for cash just to shoot up scag.


That is because they are ILLEGAL. People never did that **** in the 1800s or in the early 1900s, Back then Opium, Morphine, Heroin, all of it was legal, oh yea, Bayer aspirin, that company created Heroin in the 1870s, they took Morphine, which is 100% natural, and boiled it, and added aspirin to it, which is also natural, its made from a tree bark, and it was called heroin. It was over the counter. I wont do heroin but ****, its not like it actually does anything to you, your mind, or your body that wont go away in a few hours.

quote:
They should be shot on site, or at least beaten sensless. They begg for sympathy, saying
they have an addiction, Their Choice, ****in scum dogs.


THEN ****ING LEGALIZE IT. If people didnt have to buy from some dealer they wouldnt need money, you can grow it yourself.

quote:
Why don't you post the down
sides of drug use, instead of making out it's all fun ****wit.


Ummm, I like Opiates, thats it. There IS no ****ing down side to Opiates. Why do you think they never have them in truth commercials? because no ones ever gotten high on Opium and killed anyone, unlike weed and Acid, Opium does NOT distort your sences, it intensifies them, meaning you could prolly react quicker.

quote:
Like i said, if you need these
painkillers to combat pain and suffering fine, just don't bragg about your own use like it's
something people, young people should maybe try, because you do it.


Hmmmm, chronic back pain, Migrain head aches that have had me in the hospitol and to the point I couldnt move, shoulder aches, Anxiety up the ass, Yea I think I'll stick the the ONLY thing thats ever worked medicine wise. Im Immune to tylenol/Aceataminophine and Motrin, totally immune.

I also never told ANYONE to ****ing try it. If you wanna live your life thinking hapiness is a temporary state, fine, I dont care, Ill stick to enjoying life every minute of everyday like God intended,

quote:
Set an example and act your age.. And if others think that i am out of line, stating the facts, you should
all see the effects of drug use on the poor innocent old ladies that get mugged by these
scum of the earth fukin vermin.


What drugs are you talking about? I’v argued this out about 50 times on this site alone and never lost yet, the ****ing threads keep getting closed. And STILL no ones proved me wrong. I know my ****. Old ladies wouldn’t get mugged if the government legalized Opiates like they did in the early years.

Now, go ahead, reply with your little drug facts booklet the dare brainwashing officer gave you, and tell me what someone told you to think about drugs.

Until you try a drug, don’t assume everything about it is always true. Opiates are a Blessing on the earth. Oh and you did ask nicely for bad side effects:

Side effects of Opiates:

Euphoria...Damn, horrible isn’t it?

Constipation... If you have the shits this isn’t exactly bad either, and if you don’t, drink apple juice.

SOME Opiates that are used with over the counter medications to create pain killers, like Vicodin, CAN make some people dizzy, I have yet to have this happen.

Loss of ability to feel Pain, emotional AND physical....Opium was the world’s first anti depressant, and no one flipped out and committed suicide from it like they do on Prozac.

Warm feeling....Yea, last night I was outside smoking in 40 degree weather in a T shirt, I was fine, you actually feel warmth.

Calm....

Complete and total feeling of well being and safety.

Some people have gotten an upset stomach, laying down stops this, or eating something.

Sooooo, go grab your dare facts book and reply. I’m waiting."




Then tidal replied:


"Originally posted here by TidaLphasE23
Blah Blah Blah Blah Written you say ? Gee that's conveniant hey?
I don't need to quote from my little pocket manual. The deaths relating to
Heroin use in this state, were equal to, and at times higher than the road
toll. Why ? Because it is illegal ? BS. It's because stupid uneducated morons
choose to inject drugs, Their Choice. Why legalize it ?, to make it even more
accessible to young people to become addicted. Glad your ways of thinking
aren't the majority and only the minority, I could only imagine a world full
of gore's, running around feeling constipated and queezy, bragging how
good the feeling of euphoria is. So you can blow your pro drug support out
your ass dood, oh wait a minute, you can't your'e feeling constipated. Dickhead."


Yea, I know, sad. I replied with this:


Wow, thats cute how you come back with NOTHING. I talk about opium and you bring up heroin ODs? Ok, back to legalizing. People OD on Heroin because when you buy from a Dealer, you dont know how ****ing much is pure and what cut ratio they used.

If it was legal and sold in pharmacies like it was in the 1900s, people wouldnt OD so much because theyd know it was pure and could act accordingly.

For the record, I havnt and wont do heroin, I know itll feel TOO good. As for driving....Now your talking out of your ass, road side studies prove more than a 3rd of people who are in car crashes and stoned are also drunk.

Alcohol is WAY more dangerouse than Opium. a world full of gores? What the **** is wrong with you man? I never said a thing about a world full of me. constipation doesnt happen everytime either you moron.

How in the hell are you that stupid? "Oh Iv never done anything drug related but I see another guy on this site uses it for medical and recreation, I think Ill spew off all the little lies Iv been fed over the years and tell him hes a bad eprson and stupid".

Yea, right.... Name one president of the US that didnt do Opium. Besides Bush, he did cocain. Also, name ONE thing dentists dont use daily that wasnt made from cocain. Over the counter tooth soothing drops are made from cocain.

And all the name calling....What couldnt say anything else? Face it, your wrong, your full of ****, and all you can do is reply with your little I'm better than you a clean attitude because you have no ****ing clue what your talking about.

"Ohhh I'm a dick head" Your heads stuck in your ass, pull hard now.

More facts about Opium FROM PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY TRIED IT, NOT THE ONES WHO BELIEVE EVERYTHING THE **** HEAD COP TOLD THEM IN DARE:


"It banishes melancholy, begets confidence, converts fear into boldness, makes the coward eloquent, and dastards brave. Nobody, in desperate circumstances, and smiling under a disrelish for life, ever laid violent hands on himself after taking a dose of opium, or ever will."
John Brown
(1735 - 1788)


"Narcotics have been systematically scapegoated and demonized. The idea that anyone can use drugs and escape a horrible fate is an anathema to these idiots. I predict that in the near future right-wingers will use drug hysteria as a pretext to set up an international police apparatus."
William S. Burroughs
(1914 - 1997)

Wow tidal, its like hes talkign about you.


"Heroin is very addictive but does not itself cause any
serious illnesses, nor does it harm any organs or tissues"
Dr Ben Goldacre


"All penalties for drug users should be dropped...Making drug abuse a crime is useless and even dangerous...Every year we seize more and more drugs but the quantity available still increases...Police are losing the drug battle worldwide"
Raymond Kendall
Secretary General of Interpol 1994



"To our surprise we have not been able to locate even
one scientific study on the proved harmful effects of addiction"
Dr George H Stephenson
University of British Columbia, 1956


"Individuals may take morphine or some other opiate for
20 years or more without showing intellectual or moral
deterioration is a common experience of physicians"
Dr Lawrence Kolb,
US Assistant Surgeon General, 1925

^ Proof it DOESNT harm your mind in any way, or your body.


"I believe that pipe smoking contributes to a somewhat
calm and objective judgement in all human affairs."
Albert Einstein
1879-1955)

Hmm, you calling Albert a dick head moron too Tidal? Didnt know he liked Opiatess did you? Heh, so did Edgar Alan poe.



"Oh, jab me with your needle a hundred times
And a hundred times I will bless you, Saint Morphine"
Jules Verne
(1828 - 1905)



"A pipe is the fountain of contemplation, the source of pleasure, the companion of the wise; and the man who smokes, thinks like a philosopher and acts like a Samaritan."
Edward George Bulwer-Lytton, 1st Baron Lytton
(1803 - 1873)


"Among the remedies which it has pleased Almighty God
to give to man to relieve his sufferings, none is
so universal and so efficacious as opium."
Thomas Sydenham
(1624 - 1689)



Oh yea, tidal, what Faith do you believe in? Just curious since you didnt even say ANYTHING abuot how I said God Bless the Earth with the poppy plant.

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Opium:

Homer conveys its effects in The Odyssey. In one episode, Telemachus is depressed after failing to find his father Odysseus. But then Helen...
"...had a happy thought. Into the bowl in which their wine was mixed, she slipped a drug that had the power of robbing grief and anger of their sting and banishing all painful memories. No one who swallowed this dissolved in their wine could shed a single tear that day, even for the death of his mother or father, or if they put his brother or his own son to the sword and he were there to see it done..."


In some parts of the contemporary Middle East, chilled glasses of poppy tea are served to mourners at funerals to ease their grief.



Papaver somniferum has long been popular in Europe. Fossil remains of poppy-seed cake and poppy-pods have been found in Neolithic Swiss lake-dwellings dating from over 4,000 years ago.

Poppy images appear in Egyptian pictography and Roman sculpture. Representations of the Greek and Roman gods of sleep, Hypnos and Somnos, show them wearing or carrying poppies. Throughout Egyptian civilization, priest-physicians promoted the household use of opium preparations.

Such remedies were called "thebacium" after the highly potent poppies grown near the capital city of Thebes. Egyptian pharaohs were entombed with opium artifacts by their side. Opium could also readily be bought on the street-markets of Rome.

By the eighth century AD, opium use had spread to Arabia, India and China. The Arabs both used opium and organized its trade. For the Prophet had prohibited the use of alcohol, not hashish or opiates.

Classical Greek physicians either ground the whole plant or used opium extract. Galen lists its medical indications, noting how opium...
"...resists poison and venomous bites, cures chronic headache, vertigo, deafness, epilepsy, apoplexy, dimness of sight, loss of voice, asthma, coughs of all kinds, spitting of blood, tightness of breath, colic, the lilac poison, jaundice, hardness of the spleen stone, urinary complaints, fever, dropsies, leprosies, the trouble to which women are subject, melancholy and all pestilences."

Later authorities were scarcely less enthusiastic. Physicians commonly believed that the poppy plant was of divine origin; opium was variously called the Sacred Anchor Of Life, Milk Of Paradise, the Hand Of God, and Destroyer Of Grief. Thomas Sydenham, the 17th-century pioneer of English medicine, writes....
"Among the remedies which it has pleased Almighty God to give to man to relieve his sufferings, none is so universal and so efficacious as opium."


This may be overstating God's benevolence; but by relieving emotional as well as physical pain, opiates have been understandably popular. Robert Burton, scholar, priest and author of Anatomy of Melancholy, commended laudanum - essentially opium dissolved in wine - for those who were insomniacs...


"...by reason of their continual cares, fears, sorrows, dry brains [which] is a symptom that much crucifies melancholy men..."
Indeed opium was probably the world's first authentic antidepressant. Unlike other pain-relieving agents such as ethyl alcohol, ether or the barbiturates, opium doesn't impair sensory perception, the intellect or motor co-ordination. Pain ceases to be threatening, intrusive and distressing; but it can still be sensed and avoided.

At lower dosages, opium may be pleasantly stimulating rather than soporific. In the East, opium was typically treated as a social drug; and opium-smoking was a tool for conviviality. Nowadays a life of habitual opioid use evokes images of stupor and mindless oblivion, yet ironically Coleridge coined the word intensify to describe opium's effects on consciousness.


By the nineteenth century, vials of laudanum and raw opium were freely available at any English pharmacy or grocery store. One nineteenth-century author declared: "[Laudanum] Drops, you are darling! If I love nothing else, I love you." Another user, the English gentleman quoted in Jim Hogshire's Opium for the Masses (1994), enthused that opium felt akin to a gentle and constant orgasm.

Youngsters were introduced to the pleasures of opiates at their mothers' breast. Harassed baby-minders - and overworked parents - found opium-based preparations were a dependable way to keep their kids happy and docile; this was an era before Ritalin. Sales of Godfrey's Cordial, a soothing syrup of opium tincture effective against colic, were prodigious. But Godfrey's Cordial had its competitors: Street's Infants' Quietness, Atkinson's Infants' Preservative, and Mrs. Winslow's Soothing Syrup.


Opium was viewed as a medicine, not a drug of abuse. Contemporary medical theory didn't allow that one could become addicted to a cure. However, the chemists and physicians most actively investigating the properties of opium were also its dedicated consumers; and this may conceivably have colored their judgment.


Writers of distinction certainly consumed opium in copious quantities. Samuel Taylor Coleridge (1772-1834) wrote Kubla Khan in a dream-like trance while under its spell; opium promotes vivid dreams and rich visual imagery as well as gentle euphoria...
"In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Down to a sunless sea
...
I would build that dome in air,
That sunny dome, those caves of ice!
And all who heard should see them there,
And all should cry, Beware! Beware!
His flashing eyes, his floating hair!
Weave a circle round him thrice,
And close your eyes with holy dread,
For he on honey-dew hath fed,
And drunk the milk of Paradise."


Fellow English author Thomas de Quincey (1785-1859) writes of "the marvelous agency of opium, whether for pleasure or for pain". De Quincey seems to have treated opium as a mood-brightening smart-drug. The author of Confessions of an English Opium-Eater (1821) draws invidious comparisons with alcohol. He attributes a heightening of his mental powers to opium use...

"Whereas wine disorders the mental faculties, opium introduces amongst them the most exquisite order, legislation and harmony. Wine robs a man of self-possession; opium greatly invigorates it....Wine constantly leads a man to the brink of absurdity and extravagance; and, beyond a certain point, it is sure to volatilize and disperse the intellectual energies; whereas opium seems to compose what has been agitated, and to concentrate what had been distracted. ...A man who is inebriated...is often...brutal; but the opium eater...feels that the diviner part of his nature is paramount; that is, the moral affections are in a state of cloudless serenity; and over all is the great light of majestic intellect...."

De Quincey states that not he himself, but opium, should be regarded as the true hero of his essay. Opium was his "Divine Poppy-juice, as indispensable as breathing". By reputation, opium users have dull wits, idle lives and diminished sensibility. This was not de Quincey's verdict. He made a habit of going to the opera under its influence - and found his experience of music delightfully enhanced...

"Now opium, by greatly increasing the activity of the mind, generally increases, of necessity, that particular mode of its activity by which we are able to construct out of the raw material of organic sound an elaborate intellectual pleasure...It is sufficient to say, that a chorus, etc of elaborate harmony displayed before me, as in a piece of arras work, the whole of my past life - not as if recalled by an act of memory, but as if present and incarnated in the music; no longer painful to dwell upon, but the detail of its incidents removed...and its passions exalted, spiritualized, and sublimed..."

Opium induces gentle, subtle, dream-like hallucinations very different from the fierce and unpredictable weirdness of LSD. Baudelaire (1821-67) likens opium to a woman friend, "...an old and terrible friend, and, alas! Like them all, full of caresses and deceptions." Across the Atlantic, in 1842, William Blair describes his experiences with opium in a New York magazine...

"While I was sitting at tea, I felt a strange sensation, totally unlike any thing I had ever felt before; a gradual creeping thrill, which in a few minutes occupied every part of my body, lulling to sleep the before-mentioned racking pain, producing a pleasing glow from head to foot, and inducing a sensation of dreamy exhilaration (if the phrase be intelligible to others as it is to me) similar in nature but not in degree to the drowsiness caused by wine, though not inclining me to sleep; in fact far from it, that I longed to engage in some active exercise; to sing, dance, or leap...so vividly did I feel my vitality - for in this state of delicious exhilaration even mere excitement seemed absolute Elysium - that I could not resist the tendency to break out in the strangest vagaries, until my companions thought me deranged...After I had been seated [at the play I was attending] a few minutes, the nature of the excitement changed, and a 'waking sleep' succeeded.
The actors on the stage vanished; the stage itself lost its reality; and before my entranced sight magnificent halls stretched out in endless succession with galley above gallery, while the roof was blazing with gems, like stars whose rays alone illumined the whole building, which was tinged with strange, gigantic figures, like the wild possessors of lost globe...I will not attempt farther to describe the magnificent vision which a little pill of 'brown gum' had conjured up from the realm of ideal being. No words that I can command would do justice to its Titanian splendour and immensity..."

In North America, the initial history of Papaver somniferum was somewhat more peaceful. During the first few centuries of European settlement, opium poppies were widely cultivated. Early settlers dissolved the resin in whisky to relieve coughs, aches and pains.
The plant had further uses. Papaver somniferum produces lots of small black seeds. Poppy-seeds are an ingredient of typical bird-seed and a common garnish on rolls. Poppy-seeds can also be ground into flour; used in salad-dressings; added to sauces as flavoring or thickening-agents; and the oil can be expressed and used in cooking. Poppy-heads are infused to make a traditional sedative drink.


Many distinguished early Americans grew Papaver somniferum. Rightly or wrongly, they would today be treated as felons. Thomas Jefferson cultivated opium poppies at his garden in Monticello. The seeds from its plants, including the poppies, were sold at the gift-shop of Thomas Jefferson Center for Historic Plants until 1991 - when a drug-bust at the nearby University of Virginia panicked the Board of Directors into ripping up the plants and burning the seeds. The cultivation of Papaver somniferum is banned in the USA under the Opium Poppy Control Act of 1942.


Amateur horticulturists, however, continue to value the beautiful red, yellow and white flowers as adornments to their gardens.
Until the nineteenth century, the only opioids used medicinally or recreationally took the form of crude opium. Opium is a complex chemical cocktail containing sugars, proteins, fats, water, meconic acid, plant wax, latex, gums, ammonia, sulphuric and lactic acids, and numerous alkaloids, most notably morphine (10%-15%), codeine (1%-3%), noscapine (4%-8%), papaverine (1%-3%), and thebaine (1%-2%). All of the latter, apart from thebaine, are used medicinally as analgesics. The opioid analgesics are of inestimable value because they reduce or abolish pain without causing a loss of consciousness. They also relieve coughs, spasms, fevers and diarrhea.

Even thebaine, though without analgesic effect, is of immense pharmaceutical worth. This is because it can be used to produce semi-synthetic opioid morphine analogues such as oxycodone (Percodan), dihydromorphenone (Dilaudid), hydrocodone (Vicodin) and etorphine (Immobilon). Classes of morphine analogue include the diphenylpropylamines (e.g. methadone), the 4-phenylpiperidines (e.g. meperidine), the morphinans (e.g. levorphanol) and 6,7-benzomorphans (e.g. metazocine). Although seemingly structurally diverse, all these compounds either possess a piperidine ring or contain the critical part of its ring structure. Etorphine, for instance, is a very potent analogue of morphine.


On one occasion a team of researchers, working in the 1960s under Professor Bentley of Macfarlan Smith and Co, drank mid-morning tea that had been stirred with a contaminated rod. They were soon laid out. The scientists had unwittingly drunk a drug later developed as etorphine. Etorphine is over 1000 times more powerful than morphine; it is used in dart-guns as Immobilon to subdue elephants and rhinos. Fortunately the scientists recovered.

Morphine was first isolated from opium in 1805 by a German pharmacist, Wilhelm Sertürner. Sertürner described it as the Principium Somniferum. He named it morphium - after Morpheus, the Greek god of dreams. Today morphine is isolated from opium in substantially larger quantities - over 1000 tons per year - although most commercial opium is converted into codeine by methylation. On the illicit market, opium gum is filtered into morphine base and then synthesized into heroin.


Doctors had long hunted for effective ways to administer drugs without ingesting them. Taken orally, opium is liable to cause unpleasant gastric side-effects. The development of the hypodermic syringe in the mid-nineteenth century allowed the injection of pure morphine. Both in Europe and America, members of high society and middle-class professionals alike would jack up daily; poor folk couldn't afford to inject drugs. Morphinism became rampant in the USA after its extensive use by injured soldiers on both sides of the Civil War. In late nineteenth-century America, opiates were cheap, legal and abundant. In the judgment of one historian, America became "a dope fiend's paradise".


Moreover it was believed that injecting morphine wasn't addictive. Quitting habitual opium use can cause malaise, flu-like symptoms, and depression; morphine seemed an excellent cure. In China, for instance, early twentieth century missionaries handed out anti-opium remedies in such profusion that the pills became known as "Jesus Opium"; their active ingredient was morphine.

Soldiers, missionaries and patent-medicine salesmen were not alone in eulogizing its properties. A leading American medical textbook (1868) revealed that opiates...
"...cause a feeling of delicious ease and comfort, with an elevation of the whole moral and intellectual nature...There is not the same uncontrollable excitement as from alcohol, but an exaltation of our better mental qualities, a warmer glow of benevolence, a disposition to do great things, but nobly and beneficently, a higher devotional spirit, and withal a stronger self-reliance, and consciousness of power.

Nor is this consciousness altogether mistaken. For the intellectual and imaginative faculties are raised to the highest point compatible with individual capacity...Opium seems to make the individual, for a time, a better and greater man...."

Racist stereotypes, rampant xenophobia and lurid images of white slave-traders abounded too. In the 1850s and 1860s, tens of thousands of Chinese had immigrated to the USA to help build the western railroads and work the California mines. Opium-smoking was an integral part of Chinese culture; and its effects offered a merciful relief from dirty and backbreaking work. But the medical tide was turning. Dr Hamilton Wright, newly appointed US opium commissioner, blamed "the Chinese vice" for corrupting the nation's youth....

So the search began for a powerful non-addictive alternative to opium and morphine. In 1874, English pharmacist C.R. Alder Wright had boiled morphine and acetic acid to produce diacetylmorphine, C17H17NO (C2H3O2)2. Diacetylmorphine was synthesized and marketed commercially by the German pharmaceutical giant, Bayer. In 1898, Bayer launched the best-selling drug-brand of all time, Heroin.


For Tidal:


"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution-then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise."
ALDOUS HUXLEY
1894 – 1963



Today, by contrast, immense energy is devoted by the authorities into persecuting "illicit" narcotic users. Many drug-"abusers" feel well thanks only to the "non-therapeutic" use of opioids. They are stigmatized, pilloried and criminalized in a futile War Against Drugs. In the Inquisition against pleasure, victims of medically-sanctioned human-rights abuses - e.g. the hundreds of thousands of drug "offenders" incarcerated in the American gulag - are officially supposed to believe their malaise-ridden drug-naive state was "normal", "natural" and mental healthy.


In the course of our ill-conceived Drug War, vast resources are dissipated by the state-apparatus in an effort to choke off narcotic production and supply. When these efforts are temporarily successful, drug-deprivation makes the habitual opioid user feel ill; [s]he "cold-turkeys" with characteristic dysphoria, irritability, depression and sometimes raw physical pain. The ill-effects felt from involuntary deprivation of opioids are taken to demonstrate the likely ill-effects of legalized access, a paradox that might be thought labored were its human costs not so tragic.

Even where it is acknowledged that many users have a pre-existing anxiety or depressive disorder in urgent need of relief, those so afflicted are fobbed off with often third-rate psychotropics instead. For a start, the monoamine hypothesis of depression - and the new classes of drug it has spawned (SSRIs, NARIs, SNRIs, NaSSAs, RIMAs etc to complement the dirty old tricyclics and irreversible unselective MAOIs) - is radically incomplete.

A minority of people, admittedly, find such drugs effective. Often taking a licensed antidepressant is better than nothing at all - perhaps in part because of their positive effects on endogenous opioid peptide release. Yet even in the context of controlled clinical trials with relatively high dosage-regimens and artificially good rates of patient-compliance, it's rare for response-rates to reach more than 70%. Rates of full remission of depressive symptoms are far lower, perhaps 25-30%. Out "in the field", the picture is worse still. Adverse side-effects are common. Response may take weeks. Withdrawal reactions can be unpleasant.


A recognition of the crucial role of dopamine, and selective dopamine reuptake blockers, in sub-types of depressive mood-disorders might push response- and remission- rates higher. The mesolimbic dopamine system is critical to vitality, motivation, libido and a capacity to anticipate reward. Dopaminergics can also act as analgesics. Yet the FDA stymies the licensing of effective dopamine reuptake-blocking mood-brighteners at home; and applies pressure to deny access to them abroad. This is because of worries about their (sometimes) faster efficacy - and mild psychostimulant effect - raise the spectre of "abuse-potential"; and proscription, persecution and indiction are favored over consumer education. For Big Brother knows best.
"I'll die young, but it's like kissing God"
Lenny Bruce


"Millions of people suffer needlessly from agonizing pain because physicians have been reluctant to use ‘high-risk’ opioids"
Crain & Shen 2000


"The first thing they told us in medical school is that no one has ever died from pain but plenty of physicians have had their careers destroyed trying to help people who are in pain."
Comment from an emergency room physician requesting anonymity (2001)


Not only do sufferers of chronic pain and narcotic addicts stand to benefit from such harm reduction approaches but, by decreasing drug-associated crimes, a significant area of the true “drug problem” can be directly addressed, thereby benefiting society as a whole.



Tidal, mabye you dont realise it, but I DO know my ****. Iv studied Opiates, effects, everything. Now, Basically what your saying is people should never be happier than they usually are.

Because you said Opiates should only be used for medical reasons. Your one sadistic **** man. Do you like pain? We can sit and argue as long as you want, Im not backing down, I know my **** and I have no problem proving you wrong.

So come on, Im challenging you, prove me wrong."



At this point I was still waiting for something to argue about but no one could really say much. At this point Whizkid got involved and posted this:

"Originally posted here by whizkid2300
Ladies such language.

Now I am going to jump in. Drugs Uhm...

Let's see Tidal have you ever done a drug first?

If you have then maybe you have some experience and might be able to say something but if not, you only know what your told, and what people are usually told is not the Truth. Look at weed, you are made to believe that when you smoke weed. You will lose all since of control, you won't care anymore, that you won't be able to talk straight.

You are made to belive after one time of smoking weed all this will happen. I mean come on. I have some Dro, in my book bag. I will let anyone try and I garauntee that none of the Above will happen, they will be a little goofy but nothing much more. I know this for a fact. Why because I have done it.

There are plenty of things that you can do, in life and when you qoute things that you have read. You know what it very well be true. But you aren't 100% sure it is true, because you haven't done it.

Now last Tidal I might of mess read Gore but he said that Herion is a bad thing and that he won't do it.

No, you also said doing for no reason. Let's take this a step further. What about people that get addicted to pain medication. Or other drugs. I know a friend the guy is addicted to Pain med's he was in a Car accident and they had him on so many he got used to them.

So tell me where that guy is an all being Scum. Huh... He wasn't doing anything but taking his med's and the Docs gave him to much and he got addicted.

So, I am just saying last. If you are going to talk about something in a Negative manner at least look, at the flip side of things.

Which you and most people, will look only look at something from there side and never look at it from the other side.

Now if you want to take this a step further, What about War Vets. It has been proven that they are given drugs. Are they all scum. By your previous statement they are.

Last but not least we got to remember one group of people. Kimo patients. It has been proven that weed helps deal with pain.

If I remember correctly California is trying to legalize it for AIDS patients.

I am done, but Gore don't feel bad I have gotten into plenty of these also. Most of them not on AO though.

/me lights a phatty and smokes untill his eyes are Pink. "


I Replied to this and quoted it in my reply saying:

"I agree with this. Not only do I agree but also, Tidal, take EVERY ****ING RECORD YOU OWN, EVERY TAPE, EVERY CD, EVERY MP3, and burn them. Every musician does drugs except ted nugent, and hes a nympho, sex is a drug because you do it to achieve an orgasm, which is what Morphine feels like. Masturbation would be reacreational use of this drug, and unless your having sex to make a child, its recreation.

So with the way you think, you also cant have sex anymore unless your making a child. Fun how this all works out huh?

Oh yea, drugs DO expand your mind, Albert is a good example. ****, lets see YOUR sober ass come of with a theory for existance."


At this point Ennis and Valhallen decided they didnt like what we were talking about and said the thread would be closed LIKE EVERY OTHER ****ING THREAD IV TRIED TO ARGUE THIS IN or that the entire thing would be deleted.

Also one of them said I was flaming, which I wasnt, tidal was, I replied to this with:


"I havent flamed anyone. Tidal on the other hand called me a moron, a dickhead, and scum. Oh yea, almost forgot:

All the posts in this thread about beer, duvel, and alcohol should be treated the same. Seeing as how alcohol is a drug to. Its also addictive and RARELY used medically.

Alcohol is a legal drug for recreation, Tidal called all of you morons and scum because you drink. Remember, he said drugs should only be used for medical reasons, otherwise you should be dragged down and shot or beaten.

Alcohol is alot more dangerouse than any Opiate; Alcohol actually DOES impair your sences. anyone who disagrees, go get drunk as hell, I'll grab some Morphine, and we'll see who can still drive.


And yes, I did put alot into these posts. I never did ANY drugs untill 3 years ago. When I was younger, like 7 years old, if I had a head ache, Id take Tylenol, and nothing happened, Id still have a head ache, so basically if I got hurt I justh ad to deal with it because nothing worked.

Then 3 years ago, I moved out of the house I grew up in. After having to carry a 400 pound computer stand I was dying. My back hurt so bad I couldnt breath. I took 4,000 MGs of motrin....4 Hours later I was STILL in pain, it didnt even do anything.

Then...I took a Vicodin, my first time ever having an Opiate. 15 Minutes later, A smile came across my face, the pain slowly drifted away, and for the first time in 5 hours, I got up off the floor I was laying on in anguish, and was fine.

I was happy, warm, cozy, and Glad I wasnt hurting anymore. That interested me, how one little pill could take away that much pain, no medication had ever worked on me before that, so I started looking into it. I bought a PDR and read about it. Then I went online and realised it was made from Opium, so I started researching it. and now, Im great.

I was going to not go to college because I hated school. After taking vicodin for a while, I could actually concentrate, I got outta high school and went onto College. I take Vicodin before every final in school, and I pass without studying, because it really DOES increase your sences, and allows me too concentrate."

[TidaLphasE23]

Side Effects Of Opium: Turning out like gore!!!!!

Now the facts i dug up:Opium Side Effects
* malnutrition
* respiratory complications
* low blood pressure
* mental and physical health problems
* severe constipation
* contracted pupils
* moodiness
* menstrual irregularities
* lung, liver, kidney and brain damage
* collapsed veins from injecting the drug
* loss of weight
* reduction of sex hormone levels
* frequent infections
* pregnancy complications including still birth
* death

Effects Of Opium :
* Euphoria
* sense of emotional detachment
* absense of pain and stress
* altered mood and mental processes
* sleepiness
* vomiting
* loss of appetite
* reduced sex drive
* itchy skin
* increased urination
* sweating
* inability to concentrate
* impaired vision
* death


You say

it's already been proven Opiates dont **** with your ability too think logically, if anything they increase it.

Well i will quote

Effects of opium : The duration of chemical effects of opium is about four hours. The drug produces relaxation, relief of pain and anxiety, DECREASED ALERTNESS, IMPAIRED COORDINATION, and serious constipation problems

And concerning your Vicoden addiction,

Drug Facts: Individuals with a vicoden addiction become deeply depressed, and their thinking, attention and judgment become impaired.

Gee i never noticed. Also

As the use grows Vicodens side effects will come in the form of blurred vision, hallucinations, and severe confusion.

Yeah, sounds all good eh. You had your say, i've had mine, don't bother cut and pasting
6000 words of support for your drug taking, i wont be bothered reading it. cheers.

[creative_32X_mx]

Yeah well we all obviously have our own oppions on this particular subject.

Now my opinion on the subject is basic.

You choose to do drugs.
And you do something stupid or worse kill someone then your the one that has to live with that responsibilty.
And if you choose not to do drugs, then that's your choice.

And my choice is NOT to do drugs.
I USED to smoke weed but i ended up just getting to Violent, and i lost a lot of friends because of my actions while i was Stonned.

Now i will only take Prescription Medication when provided by my Doctor.

Anyhow i'm sure someone will have there own opinion so i will end my post here.

Thanks for Listening and i hope to see some more debate about Drugs and there Affects.

Cheers

[bballad]

Originally posted here by gore


Hmm, not with Opiates. It's already been proven Opiates dont **** with your ability too think logically, if anything they increase it. For my arguement look in the non sencical thread where I so far am winning this debate because well, tidal phase, and everyone else, have yet to actually prove a damn thing.

Gore I think they have ****ed with you a littel too much allready. For the rest of you take it fom a guy who lost a month of his life in an opium den,, opiates distroy your ability to think logicly (at least while you are on them) they may help out creativity, but analytical and logical thaught is gone.

I have no real problem with peopl doing drugs if they can do it with out bothering me...but I see drug use as a hugh wast of time and money, any one doing them is just wasting their life in my eyes. been there done that myself so Ido know what I am talking about, the only things I didn't try was coke (allways thaught most coke heads where aholes and didn't want to be like them) and haroin (hate needles).

Oh and Gore ever watch the movie from your sig (cannibal holocaust) best horror flick ever.

[RoadClosed]

Drugs are an easy way to escape each own's individual reality. Mind altering means bending reality. I think drugs can lower inhibitions and increase some level of creativity in the brain. I mean who the hell writes "incents and peppermints" when thay are stone sober?? I always look at Ozzy and Santana and wonder... man they should have stopped a long time ago.

[mandraketux]

Ok, I know gore/Allen personally. Hes right. Tidal, you dug up ANOTHER load of **** that someone fed you to believe. Youv never done it but you dig up facts about it and think they are true? come on man, Iv done a **** load and i dont think iv had any of those. Man you have got the most un educated opinion iv ever seen. I know allen has actually done a **** load of things but at least he doesnt go around saying drinking is bad just because he doesnt drink, he does however hate people who drink and drive. you say you dug up facts? half of those are NOT true. if you read his original post the person working for the us goverment actually stated people will do Morphine or any other opiate for 20 years without showing any signs of intelletual or physical decay. you have no clue what you are talking about, your just spouting what was fed to you. Maybe it is true what they say about free thinkers, we are dangerouse.

BB, no offence but no one in the thread is saying to DO drugs, the arguement is I should be able to because I feel like it. of course i got dragged into this thread because i know gore in person.

* inability to concentrate
*death

You really never have tried this huh? where the hell did you find these? Drugsarebad.com?
The **** my buddy typed out was from people who actually DID do the drugs. Your a sheep man. go watch scarface, sheep.

*Jim Morrissen: YOUR ALL A BUNCH OF ****IN SLAVES!!!*

Believe what daddy and the goverment feed you and live your life as cattle. you wont ever do anything more than the job you have now because your unwilling to do anything to expand your mind.

and for the record, the bull about opium killing you....thats a lie, and if its not, look on the bright side, you wont have to see me around for long.

[gore]

Originally posted here by TidaLphasE23
Side Effects Of Opium: Turning out like gore!!!!!

Now the facts i dug up:Opium Side Effects
* malnutrition
* respiratory complications
* low blood pressure
* mental and physical health problems
* severe constipation
* contracted pupils
* moodiness
* menstrual irregularities
* lung, liver, kidney and brain damage
* collapsed veins from injecting the drug
* loss of weight
* reduction of sex hormone levels
* frequent infections
* pregnancy complications including still birth
* death

Effects Of Opium :
* Euphoria
* sense of emotional detachment
* absense of pain and stress
* altered mood and mental processes
* sleepiness
* vomiting
* loss of appetite
* reduced sex drive
* itchy skin
* increased urination
* sweating
* inability to concentrate
* impaired vision
* death


You say

Well i will quote

And concerning your Vicoden addiction,
Gee i never noticed. Also


Yeah, sounds all good eh. You had your say, i've had mine, don't bother cut and pasting
6000 words of support for your drug taking, i wont be bothered reading it. cheers.

Ok, first, Tux, go get me something to drink.

Second, tidalcoholic, your a hypocrit little ****. You drink and **** but you say drugs are bad? you have YET to reply to anything Iv said, instead you go find some pre chewed for your protection anti drug site online and copy and paste a bunch of lies. Man, dont even reply anymore untill you can actually respond with something thats relevant and isnt a lie from some **** website.

Do you know I saw an anti drug site that said weed being all natural was a myth....Excuse me, thats a lie, it actually is all natural, just like Opium. **** it, I'm done, tidals just going to reply with some stupid **** he found online and more flame bait about how bad of a person I am. Tidal who the **** are YOU to judge anyone?

[bballad]

Ok again form someon who spent some time on opium, tidals list of sideaffects are correct (except for the vein part last time I checked we all smoked opium). Now chemicals may affect everybody a littel difrently, I knew a girl who would giggle uncontrolably for 5 min then pass out every time she did vicodin, vicodin barly affected me, (but at that point I was also doing opium so it was probably too weak). I don't get addicted like other people (3 pack a day smoker for years, stoped one day no nic fits but weight gain, opium user for years, stoped with no physical reaction, Pot smoker for years 8 to 12 oz a day stoped with no reaction, coffe drinker for years 3+ pots a day stoped with no reaction.) I am just lucky I guess, but Ihave watched freinds lives disaper into a haze of addiction.

Oh gore, horse **** is natural, would you eat that? hell night shade is all natural also, have fun. (stateing something is all natural so it must be safe/good is insane.)

[TidaLphasE23]

mandraketux, you got dragged into this thread because you hang out of gore's ass,
seems you are the ****ing sheep, anyone who comes across bragging how they are
imune from certain drugs, are just ****ing losers that talk **** all day, have no real
friends exept the other drug ****ed delusional muppets that they take drugs with. If
i met you in the pub and you started talking how much drugs you cantake, and how good
you think it is, you wouldn't last 5 seconds. Your'e an epileptic ****ing peanut like your bum
buddy mandraketux. I couldn't give a flying **** how many opium freak mates you get to
argue the point that i pulled my facts out my ass, dickwads like yourselves have no merit
as far as i am concerned,you don't know what i have done and seen, why ? because i don't
bragg like a tosser about how good drugs are. The only point that you have proven know all,
is that you are a complete waste of ****ing space, and your brains are in your ass.
Happy smokin chumps.