Stealing Wireless network access
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Thread: Stealing Wireless network access

  1. #1
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    Stealing Wireless network access

    I've notice a few posts on this. Some people may consider this more of a "how to not be a butthole" post than a "Network Security Discussion," but here it is.

    To all those who wish to steal wireless network access.... Don't. Sometimes you may just find that your stupid neighbor didn't use a good ssid or wep, or you may find yourself in jail.

    INSTEAD: If you find that your neighbor set their network up poorly, or if you find any weaknesses in it, help them to patch it. You'd be amazed how many people will allow you free access to their connection if you prevent the entire 'hood from connecting to it. Aside from that, it gives you good person points, redeemable later when they invite you over for a cookout or help you with your broken down car.

    MORAL OF THE STORY: quit looking out for number one, and help those who haven't a clue what they are doing. Not only will they be grateful, but you will actually have used all that computer knowledge for something good.

    -skurIT
    i\'m starting to think that i\'m bound to always be the first guy on the second page of the thread.

  2. #2
    Leftie Linux Lover the_JinX's Avatar
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    w00t I couldn't agree more !!

    helping people out does get rewarded !!
    and I don't mean that in a christian/heaven way !

    My neighbours allow me access to most anything, partialy because they know I can keep them safe from other people like me !!
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  3. #3
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    Well said indeed!

    I'm sure there are several people on this site that would disagree with your philosophy of helping those less not-stupid than you, but I couldn't agree more.

  4. #4
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    MORAL OF THE STORY: quit looking out for number one, and help those who haven't a clue what they are doing. Not only will they be grateful, but you will actually have used all that computer knowledge for something good.
    I will disagree with this statement slightly...

    Helping out your neighbor IS looking out for number 1. You just have to be thoughtful enough to see it that way.

    With a few exceptions, i.e. hiding a body, etc... helping your neighbor or anyone else will almost always benefit you. Just the feeling that you get when you know you helped someone is worth it even if there is no reciprocity. Even IF your neighbor is a complete @sshole.

  5. #5
    AO Ancient: Team Leader
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    [Devil's Advocate]

    Hmmmm...... Is it stealing? I mean they made it publicly accessible by setting up a wireless connection didn't they? They could have hard-wired their system but that was too much work. They could secure the wireless but they didn't spend the time to find out about how it works, it's vulnerabilities and the minor things they could do to make it "non-public" because it was too much work.

    Thus, if I am checking my email or d/ling a M$ service pack at 100mb that costs him not since he has paid for 24/7 bandwidth and he probably wouldn't even know I was there, am I really stealing? No harm is done to him - it's not like he's metered by the Mb......

    Then lets look at a slightly different situation..... Let's say Bill has a nice little insecure WAP.... I have a nice little 802.11b PDA that is set to D/L mail whenever it notices it's connected. It's set to DHCP an IP and Bill has conveniently set up DHCP, (it's the default I believe), on his WAP. There's a stop light across the road from his house and I get stopped there one day. My PDS thinks "eeek, we're on.... time to work" and away it goes collecting my mail - including that nice big attachment I asked my buddy to send me.

    Now Bill has a buddy who's security conscious and tales a look through the logs. Theres all my activity and Bill's buddy is in a bad mood and persuades Bill to sue me.........

    You be the judge.... Would you throw out the case or allow it to proceed because I "stole" Bill's bandwidth?

    [/Devil's Advocate]
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides

  6. #6
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    Instead of stealing the bandwidth you can do what I have done with my neighbors. We have a Very hi speed DSL line (it peaks at close t o1 mps, averages around 750 kbs) that we split between 5 families. The house with the lines has a WAP that we slapped a powered antenna on to (old CB antenna) and we all have wireless bridges or overlapping WAPS for our houses. Then we all split the cost of the DSL line, we all get broadband for less then we would each spend individually.
    Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?

  7. #7
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    Most convictions on minor things usualy involve being concious of committing a crime. If Bill contacted you about it, and you told him that it was just your PDA doing it's job, and that it was more or less his fault and not yours, I'm sure Bill wouldn't take you to court.

    Also, no one sues you if your dog takes a dump on their lawn, until it does so repeatedly. Not that your dog and your PDA are really comparable, but they are both just doing what they are programmed to. I guess my point is, Bill would have to have previously asked you to not get on his network with your PDA in order for his case to hold any water.


    That does bring up some good points, though Tiger Shark. No one has laws for this stuff yet.
    i\'m starting to think that i\'m bound to always be the first guy on the second page of the thread.

  8. #8
    AO Ancient: Team Leader
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    SickyourIT: Personally I don't believe laws have any place here. Not playing Devil's Advocate any more..... If someone sets up a WAP that is insecure then they are setting up a _public_ service and have no right complaining when the public use it whether automatically or as a deliberate act. There are some very minimal things a WAP owner can do to make it such that your act must be deliberate and premeditated in order to get on the system, (switch off DHCP kills all but the luckiest access). If the WAP owner fails to carry out these 30 second tasks he might as well put a computer on his front lawn with a sign saying "Internet Connected" on it, someone will use it and that would still not be as open since he could accuse me of trespassing on his lawn but those airwaves are public and I can't trespass on them when I am in the street outside his house.

    Laws solve nothing in areas where personal responsibility are the real issue. If the WAP owner places his SSN in 1 foot tall letters on a banner on the front of his house he cannot invoke the law for breach of privacy when someone reads it because he made it public. The airwaves are no different.

    Yes I will admit to having piggy-backed a WAP in the past. There were three available to me from my hotel room. One was a medical company and was encrypted and secured. I did not even try to connect. The other two were default installations. I picked the one with the better signal strength and used it at 5 am each morning for 3 days to check my work systems and email....... I did no harm, cost him/her nothing and s/he made it available to me for my use by plugging it in and walking away. Conversely, had I tried to hack the medical company for the same purposes I would have been unethical and probably in breach of the law.

    Will I piggy-back a public WAP again? Probably, if the WAP is truly public and it saves me a bunch of time and effort I see no reason not to. As I said above.... It takes thirty seconds of the owner's time to change my act from the convenient use of a public resource to an unethical act that probably is breaking the law.
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides

  9. #9
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    In all reality, you're pretty much correct Tiger Shark. I guess the point I was trying to make is that now all of the old AOL users are now going to broadband because they hear it's better, and they're getting wireless access because they don't feel like hardwiring their house. I almost feel like we who know better should at least try to stick up for them, or warn them of their relative stupidity. If your tailight was out, wouldn't you want someone to tell you? Computer security may not be a life or death situation for your neighbors, but I'm sure at the very least they would appreciate you warning them if you noticed.

    By the way, Best Buy used to use unencrypted wireless networks to transfer credit card #'s from cash registers to the main server in each store.

    Would you want to be the guy who pointed it out to them, or the guy who snagged all the card #'s and tried to purchase stuff online?
    i\'m starting to think that i\'m bound to always be the first guy on the second page of the thread.

  10. #10
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    Tell me boys,
    I understand reading the post that Wireless Access Points may be secured.
    How?Can u tell me?

    1- Bandwidth access
    wep is crackable because predictible
    User authentication thanx to 802.1x? its not 100% reliable!

    2- Disponibility
    Using a kitchen microwave anybody can anihilated the 802.11b signal
    802.1x again: MAC spoofing & PEA address group use will DoS it!

    Please tell me ur solution to secure it, I'm maybe completly paranoid!!! I'll love to walk to go anywhere home with my laptop or PDA & get network access....
    [shadow] SHARING KNOWLEDGE[/shadow]

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