Is liberalism a form of communism?

[RoadClosed]

If you know your history, you also know that the Republican party (aka the Grand Old Party, GOP) was once the liberal point of view in America.

That's true but how does that relate to 2003? Currently the Republican Party takes a politically conservative viewpoint. So it boils down to ideals versus party affiliation. I like Zell Miller and he's a democrat with conservative ideals of which many align with me (not all mind you). I don't give a rat’s ass who you’re affiliated with if you support my ideas and the ideas I believe are a collective good for America.

Back to your quote of shifting "values" in a party concerning liberal republicans. In the democratic party of today, you can see shifts to the right. They are becoming more conservative using its historical definition. By that I mean, I see government leaders shifting to the right a little as time progresses.

For historical reference, the newly formed Republican Party was behind the Emancipation Proclamation. You could call that move “progressive” to use a liberal word of the day.

[TheRepublican]

Originally posted here by rapier57
If we take clintonsucks' (and The Republican's) view, Arnold would be a Communist Republican.

rapier57, I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume where I stand before I weigh in. My definition of communism is the idea that the government should ensure that all people in their nation are equal economically, which usually means that the government does not give a damn for individual rights and wants total control over it's citizens. Many Democrats believe in "social programs" such as income redistribution and the likes, which basically do the same thing. Liberalism was originally the idea that individual rights should be protected, but the Liberals in America seem to have lost that ideal. Their ideals can be described as socialism and facism. So, Liberalism is not communism, but many Liberals want it to be.

Gosh, I'm gone for a few days, and people automatically start to put words in my mouth

[Tedob1]

Liberals want to kill babies and keep people from practicing their religion while conservatives want to know everything you do and push smaller nations around.

That’s the only choices? Satan or Big Brother?

[/Armed\]

Big brother then. To an extent of course.

Of course that is an over-simplification, but I understand that is how you meant it to come across.

Yeah, Big Brother.. Take what I can get I guess....

[Ennis]

Originally posted here by TheRepublican


My definition of communism is the idea that the government should ensure that all people in their nation are equal economically, which usually means that the government does not give a damn for individual rights and wants total control over it's citizens.

I'm sorry but I always find it surprising how deeply ingrained US propaganda is on its people, surely in a society which gives its people individual rights wouldnt be so quick to force such obviously biased views on people.

I dont get involved in political discussions, but sometimes it surprises me how people take such a view so wholeheartedly.

Out of interest have you read any of the works of Karl Marx, Lenin, Trotsky. Even Derrida who succumbs to the view that capitalism has meant communism is unworkable but accepts that Marxism is neccessary is order to show the ills and there are so many ills of capitalist society.

I dont want to argue for communism here or anything to be honest just to question your understanding of what communism or even liberalism actually is.

Please dont get offensive and start talking about US politics etc. not everyone here is from the US. Ask anyone I dont do flame wars, just conversation.

A communist society in its self if there ever had been one and there hasnt been. The Soviet Union was not communist, ask anyone who has read Marx if it was and they will tell you no.

Lenins death was the death of communism not 1990. What you had in Russia and indeed China now are dictatorships that use communism as a shield for their fascist ideas.

God Im rambling, sorry, Im not sure this makes sense to anyones argument but I just felt a need to do something here. I expect what Ive said is flawed but oh well it passed the time I was waiting for my dinner.

[RoadClosed]

You are right in the assuption that americans guage communism in a negative light. But one can't help but look at examples of comunist approaches both in American society and abroad. To date no example exists of a prosperous communist society. Even in closed habitat experiments.

The closest thing I have ever seen to communism is the US Military. Maybe I am over simplifying things. But as a highly trained specialist who worked several days with no sleep as often as most people have weekends off. I got paid the same and had the same benefits and priveledges of the office clerk working 9 to 5 and playing ping pong most of the day.

[paulie walnuts]

Ennis wrote:

I'm sorry but I always find it surprising how deeply ingrained US propaganda is on its people, surely in a society which gives its people individual rights wouldnt be so quick to force such obviously biased views on people.

Sorry dude, but this is total bullshit. Where do you get this type of idea in your head from? This sounds like utter non-sense to most Americans. You Euro's may believe this sort of trash, but don't bring it to us as fact.

I used to wonder why most Americans hated Europe and now I know why. It's bullshit statements like this one that really piss us off. You guys can believe what you want across that great pond, but don't be surprised if the majority of Americans like myself take issue with your absurd comments.

I'd be surprised if the Democrats even subscribed to this point of view! There is no propaganda in the United States, we hear all angles and we are free to choose and think what we want. ****in jealous nations. How many times must we spill our blood to save your asses!

[bballad]

OK perhaps I have my right wing nut job filter set to high but what I got fom paulies post is that he feels that a goverment should force its views on people and that we need ot all happly accept that?

Ennis: don't get to high and mighty european nations do there hold there own in spewing propaganda at its citizans (the hole euro fiasco has shon us that) remember western europ is the birht place of facisim (an idiology which is aining strength again).

I have noticed a common mistake here, people seem to be equateing comunisim with socialism. While they normaly go hand in hand you can have capatilistc comunes and socalist representitive democracy's.

edit: to fix tirdness typo

[paulie walnuts]

OK perhaps I have my right wing nut job filter set to high but what I got fom paulies emali is that he feels that a goverment should force its views on people and that we need ot all happly accept that?

When did I send you an email bballad?


Furthermore, I can't hardly understand a damn thing your typing here. That could be the source of my misunderstanding you.

[/|Glacier|\]

BBallad is like the curse of the billy goat accept the thing the curse effects mosty is his typing. Man clean the doritos and cashews out of your keyboard BBallad. Or is that supposed to be some kind of homemade encryption you have going there.