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Thread: TUTORIAL: How to love a machine

  1. #11
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    Humm may I sugest that popculture (especaily in the form of action films) may not be the best place to build ones philosaphies. note to every one AI, terminator, matrix whee all works of Fiction we are a long way off from true AI, and looking at the reports comeing out of the universities taht do real AI research things like expert systems and lang recognition may be as good as it gets.
    Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?

  2. #12
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    Originally posted here by bballad
    Humm may I sugest that popculture (especaily in the form of action films) may not be the best place to build ones philosaphies. note to every one AI, terminator, matrix whee all works of Fiction we are a long way off from true AI, and looking at the reports comeing out of the universities taht do real AI research things like expert systems and lang recognition may be as good as it gets.
    Very true. Pop culture is not the best way to build our philosophies... But, as we are constantly following Moore's law, our capability for processing information is going to double every couple of years. I just think that eventually (next 100 years or so) something like that might happen.
    N00b> STFU i r teh 1337 (english: You must be mistaken, good sir or madam. I believe myself to be quite a good player. On an unrelated matter, I also apparently enjoy math.)

  3. #13
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    Yup, that's as good as it gets. And the earth is flat with the sun and the stars revolving around it. And did ya hear? The moon is made of blue cheese and rain is just god peeing on you. We also live in a boundless universe but there is no intelligent life anywhere but on this one planet.

    Yes we are long way off and I stated that already. But I speak of a pattern of advancement
    and the eventuality of AI into conciousness.

    My point is that science fiction in time often becomes science fact.

    Please don't take this as a flame, it's just a counter.

    I do agree with you that one's personal philosophies should not be based on popculture,
    but they are just as good for supplemental additions as much as anything else.
    \"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic\" -Arthur C. Clark

  4. #14
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    Pop culture does often take root in ongoing scientific research. Not all the time but often. Isaac Asimov's books on robotic tendencies and influence on culture are or where very popular science fiction that borders what could be true philosophical debates that reach far into our future.

    I have read many articles both propose and deny AI beyond human intelligence. Sure a machine would be able to process faster than humans because a machine can calculate obscenely large numbers but can it really process faster? Given the amount of data I will process while driving home it seems realistic that a machine is comparatively slow and weak in processing. Imagine all the data input from something as simple as driving a few miles: compiling data on other cars, colors, objects, people, while listening to the radio and formulating opinions on what is heard, reading traffic signs and patterns, thinking of loved one's or building plans for the holiday while slowing down and stopping for a red light or eyeing a beautiful woman while at the same time grabbing a cell phone and dialing a number. That's parallel processing!

    A machine can’t touch that, if ever. Some say it is impossible or incapable for a machine to create a like machine that is smarter. That doesn’t mean the new machine can’t evolve but I tend to agree that it cannot be created or built. How can a machined make something more technologically advance than it? It’s limitation in creation has to be his or its own intelligence. I new creation can only be as intelligent or less, as it’s creator.

    And once this new machine evolves beyond the creator, the creator becomes obsolete. Evolution could eliminate its presence if, and only if, the new machine learns the capability to replicate.
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  5. #15
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    Guess I throw in my 2ç's worth. Some people argue that the measure of a human being's intelligence can be determined by the number or amount of activity of neurons in the brain. I don't necessarily subscribe to this thought, but it will help me make my point. A P4 cpu has around 180 million transistors while the average brain has about 20 billion neurons. It is conceivable then, imo, that as the amount of transistors on a chip comes closer to the amount of neurons in the brain, that computers may develope attributes simliar to human intelligence, or maybe even sentience.
    Every now and then, one of you won't annoy me.

  6. #16
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    We humans already have computers and processors much more powerful than the human brain in direct terms of neuron vs. transistor capacity. Hell the 3rd gen. Itanium from Intel has 410 Million transistors in it and you can place 2 or 4 or 8 cpus in the same machine and write code to utilize them in parallel. That would give a single PC of today over 3 billion transistors.

    When talking the amount of processing power, there is even a teraflop computer that can do some serious processing. One recently commissioned is actually an 11.8 teraflop computer meaning it can process many many floating point operations, which is a measure of how many large numbers a computer can crunch. In this example the computer can perform 11.8 trillion large number calculations per second. Wow, and that is not near the most powerful There are some in the 20s and some that are classified so who knows what is out there for certain. Hewlett-Packards ASCI Q at Los Alamos can produce 20.5 teraflops. NEC’s earth simulator in Japan could do over 41! These things are made up of hundreds of processors multiplying the number of transistors by hundreds – dwarfing the capacity of our human brains in terms of “transistors”. Yep, we be small, but the brain doesn’t use the same mechanism to process data. Our code and memory and cpu is all one glob of chemicals and electricity. The key is the code. We already have machines that far exceed a 1 to 1 capacity ratio.

    It’s about our own limited intelligence.

    Oh btw – that 11.8 machine uses LINUX. Booya.
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  7. #17
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    I'll have to agree with Road Closed on this one. If another lifeform could view humans from an unbiased perspective, I could imagine what single adjectives would be used to describe our nature. The spectrum would range from sympathetic to pathetic, Peaceful to Vengeful, Intriguing to loathesome. The Human creation is an imperfect bio-unit. Once we reach the threshold of adult hood, we are given the oppurtunity to become a more defined machine, yet flaws will always exist in our operation, processing and descisions. Data gathered from ventures that are unsuccesful, yield higher advantage of future definition that those of success. By this fact alone, we are hardly effecient creatures.
    A friend of mine once stated that "The computer is an extension of the human mind"
    I would like to take that a step further in saying that the computer is "A more reliable and efficent extension of the human mind. If one knows multiplication (that is usually a required teaching by 4th grade) and can truly state from memory that 6x8=48, then why would it not be too extravagent to think the same person could tell you what the total cost of 6 units times $8 per unit and considering an 8% discount? On the contrary, I'm sure that no one would agree that the human mind could multiply 6 x 8 1billion times in one second and come up with the sum of all multiplications in an instant. However, the answer is already known. No processing is required. Would that not be 48 Billion? What I guess that I'm saying is that collectively, we already have all the answers. We had to in order to create the machines. We just ask them questions we don't have time to figure out on our own.
    Build a computer that can carry out all the concious thoughts of a human being and design each of it's own components to be an individual unit that can monitor and regulate itself and send reports back to the same processor utilizing front end processing without increasing a usage threshold and allow the unit as a 'whole' to entertain itself in an idle fashion while being productive, counteractive and intuitive, allow it to depend solely on itself to carry out repair tasks and then you may then try to figure out how to enstill conciousness.
    I think that in order to make the computer a more perfect machine, we would need to re-evaluate the whole digital scenario. Basics. 1/0. On/Off. There is really no room for "it depends" on the fundamental level of digital basics. Just my 2cents.

    I also once heard a colleague say "it's a good thing that computers are digital machines instead of analogue machines, think of all of the heat that would be created".
    There are many rewarding oppurtunities awaiting composure from like minds and great ideas. It in my objective to interconnect great things.

  8. #18
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    Here's a poem I wrote inspired by this topic.

    Spiro Mecha Living Blade
    gears turning within that which I've made
    old atomic engine's hiss
    born by metal of man-god's kiss
    rising flames of life they come
    creatrix pushing; pulling them in motion
    perpetual striking, rising, spinning
    speak the tale of mecha
    speak the words of my children
    lock into place yet free in form
    for from you shall come a storm
    a gate of metal diamond rain
    flows with silent inversed pain
    hear it coming over the hill
    feel it moving underground
    see it in the heavens churning
    everknowing, everlearning
    and forever pistons burning
    as first breath draws in sharply
    and metal eyes flash open
    \"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic\" -Arthur C. Clark

  9. #19
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    Nice, I could picture that as a cool industrial or goth tune.
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  10. #20
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    Originally posted here by RoadClosed
    When talking the amount of processing power, there is even a teraflop computer that can do some serious processing. One recently commissioned is actually an 11.8 teraflop computer meaning it can process many many floating point operations, which is a measure of how many large numbers a computer can crunch. In this example the computer can perform 11.8 trillion large number calculations per second. Wow, and that is not near the most powerful There are some in the 20s and some that are classified so who knows what is out there for certain. Hewlett-Packards ASCI Q at Los Alamos can produce 20.5 teraflops..
    I'll take them out of order, but still take them. I think you are confusing computations per second w/ interconnecting pathways (gates). My comparison on the amount of neurons vs. transistors was to show that the potential of the electronic gates in a cpu do not match or come near that of the capacity of the human brain. Your 11.8 teraflop computations per sec. pale in comparison to the computational power of the human brain (and we're not even messin' around w/ the ninety percent that we don't use). Nature and evolution don't fux0r around.
    From hereWhile human neurons are slow (a million times slower than electronic circuits), every neuron and every interneuronal connection is operating simultaneously. With about 100 billion neurons and an average of 1000 connections per neuron, there are about 100 trillion computations being performed at the same time. At about 200 computations per second, that comes to 20 million billion (2 x 1016) calculations per second.
    Originally posted here by RoadClosed Yep, we be small, but the brain doesn’t use the same mechanism to process data. Our code and memory and cpu is all one glob of chemicals and electricity. The key is the code. We already have machines that far exceed a 1 to 1 capacity ratio.
    You be small, I'll take pride in the organic machine locked in my skull. I won't touch the 1 to 1 capacity ratio statement, but 'that one glob of chemicals and electricity' is more than human imagination will get close to in this century.
    "What I guess that I'm saying is that collectively, we already have all the answers." Thanks for the statement fraggin, I almost agree, but I don't. We have a collection of experiences that we can extrapolate on and come to a possible conclusion that is not as good as all the outcomes a computer may be able to come up w/, but our extrapolations are based on experience, much better in my opinion b/c we can tell what is more likely to really happen.

    Originally posted here by RoadClosed The key is the code. . . .It’s about our own limited intelligence.
    Speak for your own limited intelligence. The key is not the code. The key is in the sensory input. [sick rant]If you take a newborn, gouge out it's eyes, stab it's eardrums w/ tootpicks and remove all olfactory senses you'll have a vegetable. What if we could plug a keyboard and monitor into that badboy though??[/sick rant] Here's a start on the progress I could find w/ a quick search. . http://www.jetpress.org/volume1/moravec.htm . .good read.

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