December 14th, 2003, 01:35 PM
December 14th, 2003, 02:14 PM
Yes, and I'm sure his crimes were punishments for what he believed to be even worse crimes, and therefore justified in his mind.
Until you grow up and realize that what you are suggesting is no better than what he has done, regardless of your intentions, you will forever be the kind of person who is responsible for the same evil he is.
The very fundamental principles of justice are based on the fact that we can always be wrong. In his mind, what he was doing was justified. Who are we to judge his morals based on our own? Who says that he is wrong and we are right? Who made you God to judge all of this?
We believe we are right, and he is wrong, and we will therefore punish him based on that belief. However, we must bear in mind that our moral principles may in fact be wrong when we choose a sentence for him.
What you are proposing is called cruel and unusual punishment, which all civilized nations in the world agreed to stop after the first world war.
You are incredibly naive if you expect the civilized world to fight for our principles without living up to them. We have no right to judge others by a moral code which we do not follow. But living up to our principles, in some small way, grants us the right to judge others on them.
Someone once said, "it is far easier to fight for our principles than to live up to them". People like you are living proof.
Government is like fire - a handy servant, but a dangerous master - George Washington
Government is not reason, it is not eloquence - it is force. - George Washington.
Join the UnError
December 14th, 2003, 02:39 PM
December 14th, 2003, 02:46 PM
So, as an American, the idea of justice and a fair trial are not part of what you believe in? Nor is the idea of expression of opinions?
Personally, I'd rather see him tried in the World Court for Crimes against Humanity. It's too easy to be blinded by anger and hate than let justice happen.
And as for the coward comments, I'd like to point out a couple of things:
a) our Armed Forces are not equipped well enough to be of any use so it would be foolish for us to send out troops to their deaths like that
b) since there is a lack of proof (ie., weapons of mass destruction) we didn't agree with going in and invading a nation
As for Stiek's comments, he does has a point. It is interesting that we do enforce our moral beliefs on others because we believe our view is more right. Didn't this same thing happen when Europeans arrived in America and destroy the native indian way of life and political system? This isn't new that the concepts of one "power" override everyone else. Does it make that one power more correct? Not necessarily.
I'd be curious to see what happens now that the villian is caught. Who will Bush seem like a superhero against now?
Oh.. and as last thing, I'm going to move this to Cosmos as I think the discussion fits more towards that forum's ideals.
December 14th, 2003, 02:52 PM
hashish - I agree completely with Striek here - his opinons have nothing to do with cowardice - his opinions have more to do with acting like a thinking and civilised human being - which clearly you are not, you're actions would make you no better than Saddam. I agree Saddam may well have done terrible things to others for which he should be tried, judged and treated accordingly. However to start crowing over it like you're God almighty is quite wrong.
One thing I'd like to point out to you is that America is currently over $87 billion in debt - supposing the rest of the world calls in Americas debt, what you gonna do fight the rest of the world? When will people like you realise that if the human race is going to get anywhere we need to start working together as a single species - note that is not the same as being a socialist liberal commie or whatever you care to call it.
It's *******s like you that give your country and fellow countrymen (and women) a bad name - grow up why don't you - maybe your balls will drop and you'll be able to grow a beard too
 and as ever MsMittens puts it so much better [/edit]
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
December 14th, 2003, 02:52 PM
There should be no trial. It is a bad idea both politically and legally.
Victory is reward enough. The former head of state can be discretely exiled
I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.
December 14th, 2003, 02:56 PM
ROFL.. he won't live beyond a year. Someone will find him and do "justice". I wonder if he will end up in limbo like all those "Al-Qaeda" suspects that fine American citizens pay to house, feed, etc. Now, that'd be irony.
The former head of state can be discretely exiled
I thought it was trillion?? I know (read at CNN I believe) that the Bush government has spending out of control, albeit some of it has to be realistically for security improvements. But I wonder if there are some "hidden" purchases. Add to that the new announcements of putting a base on the moon by .. what was it? 2007 and a man on Mars in 2015.
Massive spending and owing somewhere.
December 14th, 2003, 02:57 PM
MsMittens.... I agree with u on some points, but when some ******* replies to a post...ya' gotta fight fire with fire. No offense 2 u or any other canadians...just 2 the dickhead who thought he was superior and had 2 be put in his place. Saddam should be tried before some sort of world court....but why let other nations in on it if they had nothing to do with the occupation, capture, etc. Ur right though, anger is a powerful emotion and gets the best of us sometimes...but what the hell!!...after all the innocent women and children he had raped, tortured, and killed...I think he deserves a certain and brutal death.
\"If you are ruled by your mind, you are a king; if by body, a slave.\"
December 14th, 2003, 03:01 PM
I feel the need to aplogize Striek...we have this "condition" in America, it's called trailer park trash. You can usually tell who they are by their cool nicknames liks "hashish, I smoke pot, meth head" in some attempt to impress others with their percieved counter-cultural alliances... but in reality, they are just punk kids (keeping in mind that age has nothing to do with maturity)
December 14th, 2003, 03:03 PM
I'll give you a prime example. My mom was killed by her partner on July 13, 1992. My sister was 8 and the only witness. By your logic, only the RCMP and my family should be allowed to try him in a court of law. That's flawed logic. We were affected by the events and thus our judgement clouded. The same applies. If anything, the counties that had zero to do with the events in Iraq should be the ones to try him if it's a question of fair trial.
No offense 2 u or any other canadians...just 2 the dickhead who thought he was superior and had 2 be put in his place. Saddam should be tried before some sort of world court....but why let other nations in on it if they had nothing to do with the occupation, capture, etc.
And I don't think Striek was trying to be an *******, arrogant or otherwise. I believe that's your interpretation of it. Your response struck me as very arrogant after the fact. You put forth that the only ideal in the world acceptable is the US and that's because it's a superpower. So what happens when the rest of the world has had enough and comes back against the US, much like so many bully victims ganging up on a bully? Neither is right.
The US should be careful how it progresses as history has shown that sometimes arrogance by a world power can bite you in the ass. While today everything is fine, tomorrow may very well be different.