December 14th, 2003, 10:29 PM
Immigrant Database Draws Fire
British business travelers, French filmmakers and Teutonic tourists visiting the United States will soon have their pictures and fingerprints registered in the world's largest biometric database before being allowed in the country.
But some in Congress are questioning the plan's effectiveness and privacy protections even before the first kiosks are deployed in 115 airports on Jan. 5.
dosen’t every american that drives a car have their picture taken and get fingerprinted (thumbprints). Dosn’t every american male (maybe females too now, I don’t know) have to register with the selective service and report to them if they move etc.
So whats wrong with this plan and the plan to make aliens register…we do it.
Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”
December 14th, 2003, 10:41 PM
Select * From immigrants Where terrorist=true;
A novel idea!
December 14th, 2003, 10:49 PM
like everything u post max i couldnt agree more!
December 15th, 2003, 04:52 PM
You have already disclosed who you are through passport and visa. I don't see an issue using technology to increase the ability to confirm that you are repesenting a truthful and accurate identification while passing through this country. I have my own finger print stored with my driver's license file. I never liked it, but my choice is... not driving. Travelors who wish to visit the US can make that same decision. Give a print or fly back. In fact I could see a benefit possibly; having lost a pass port myself once while traveling... having you very own finger and taking it to a consulate to let them scan it may just speed up clearance while leaving a country. Of course if you don't lose your passport then having to stand in line and get a picture and finger print is a huge hassle so that may be the real issue, since they ALREADY have passports and ALREADY have visas and ALREADY are in a huge datafile anyway.
Longer lines suck no matter how you look at it.
December 15th, 2003, 06:32 PM
Hmmm.....maybe a snip of DNA so we can identify the bodies of suicide bombers?
My state doesn't require a fingerprint... I guess I didn't know any states did?
December 15th, 2003, 08:03 PM
Lol, and I naturally just assume that every state did it. Interesting. Mine just went a step further, you can no longer get your license instantly. There is a waiting period while one is verified against existing records and then it's mailed out to a physical address. Used to, one could show up with some kind of fake ID or birth certificate and get a shiny new ID. They may have found it to be invalid at a later date but then the new ID holder was already gone.
December 15th, 2003, 08:28 PM
Good idea for some........like me
I have been able to get security clearances up to 8 weeks faster because of the efficiency of the current American system. OK I admit that keeping such records for people in defence and suchlike is different from all aliens. We are a relatively small community, and given the cost of "positive vetting", I suppose it is natural that such records would be maintained, and accessible?
I think that the proposals might result in a system that is either diluted or flooded. I think the question you should ask is "would it have stopped 9/11" I think that the answer to that is "no"?
Anyways, do you think that the enemy is stupid......if you are looking for known terrorists/criminals, then they will send ones that you don't know?
December 15th, 2003, 08:53 PM
Lol, nothing could stop 9/11 but it may stop someone who is arrested in France as Bob from entering the country 2 years later as Jim, and then getting a valid US drivers license that enables him to fly into JFK as Bill and then meet up with 8 other's who did the same thing to get to a single airplane on a predetermined date.
Then again it may not, but it could make is infinitely more difficult to plan large scale operations because too many clues are left behind. We have/had one of the most lax imigration stategies on the planet. There is more security going into downtown London then comming into one of the thousands of entry points into the US.
December 16th, 2003, 12:14 AM
I strongly disagree with that statement, RoadClosed... I know what I'm talking about, trust me
We have/had one of the most lax imigration stategies on the planet.
If you fly from the States to any Western-European country, you'll only be questioned once: when you leave the US. The questions are solely security-related ("Who packed your luggage?" - that kinda stuff). Upon entering the EU, nobody will ask you anything. You can enter the EU as often as you want, as long as you don't exceed your passport-limit (3 to 6 months).
Now, the other way around... that's a whole different story. Upon leaving a EU-country, you'll be questioned by a EU-immigration officer (goal of your trip,...), in addition to the extended security-check in the origination country (The security-check btw is MUCH more thorough in European countries than it is in the US). If you can't show the EU-officer a RETURN-ticket, you won't be allowed to even leave the EU. Then, upon entering the US, EVERYBODY goes through immigration. I had to face a 45-minute interrogation upon entering the US. This is a very common practice (about 2 out of 10 people), and solely intended as intimidation imo (since I wasn't doing anything wrong, and those guys obviously didn't know jack **** about international law ("We don't care about international law")).
Now, as far as the actual immigration is concerned: what are the options... green card? Forget it, unless you're extremely lucky (and people receiving a green card are very thoroughly screened). The other options take time... a LOT of time. Compare that to the immigration laws in Europe, and you'll see why I disagree... (it takes any nitwit about 4 months to legally become Belgian, for example. No questions asked. Healthcare and everything included).
Basically, there's nothing wrong with the proposal. It is obviously intended to wead out the scum, and the "good" guys will have to pay for it once more (as usual). It's effectiveness is HIGHLY questionable, though. I don't think any suicide terrorist will care that they take his fingerprints upon entering the US. What's the use, anyways? Identifying the body?
December 16th, 2003, 12:34 AM
OK I agree with you in Europe. I have entered the US hundreds of times and have never been interrogated. You must look suspicious.
Heathrow and Gatwick always gave me issue and so did a couple in Germany especially Frankfurt. Italy and Portugal nothing I guess it depends on your entry, stripped searched many times in other outlying areas of the world. Maybe I look suspicious?