February 10th, 2004, 11:47 AM
hey this is not necessary that to know security u have knowledge of hacking , if ur operating system fundas are clear then u can secure ur system,ya this other factor that u must know about how to hacking a system or n/w.
February 11th, 2004, 01:29 AM
I think that playing around on a home lan is a good way to learn security. it may not be the only way to learn but its fun and legal.
I dont think being an "hacker" in the main stram pop sene using canned programs and social enginering will teach you about security.
It all depends on your definishion of hacker.is it a person who looks for flaws legaly or a person who mindlessly explotes them with no real knowlege of what their doing.
February 11th, 2004, 09:05 AM
Security is not just about hacking....
Security for any organization evolves from the following basic fundamentals
Confidentiality - Only authorized people can view authorized information
Integrity- No Person wheter authorized or unauthorized can make unauthorized changes to the organization Information assets
Availabilty... Information shall be made avaiable to authorized user on demand...
Apart from above mentioned Security also needs to concerned about Efficiency and Effectiveness of Information Assets used by the organization....
Now when you analyze this.. It is quite clear that security is a vast domain.. Hacking can only form a very small part of it.....
Effective security implementation can happen only with a team of qualified people from diverse backgrounds (Functional , Policy, Admins etc etc.)
So definetely Hacking a not a pre-requisite to learn security. Inspite of not knowing a single hack tool u can still contribute to the security organization in various other functions....
****** Any man who knows all the answers most likely misunderstood the questions *****
February 11th, 2004, 04:50 PM
Yes, I know, you are completely right, note though that I do not compromise other's systems, I only do assessment, and email the webmaster about vulns. But sigh, here in Belgium, even a port scan is illegal. I never claimed that I do it to obtain knowledge, it's just: putting your knowledge in practice in a sort off non-damaging way.
and you have no friends that would be interested in letting you set up a lan at their place for your mutual benifit? what i saying is if you wanted to hack just to learn security you would find another way rather than breaking into others computers. your lifes conditions are not anyone elses responsibility as you seem to think. because your parents (god i cant believe im having this conversation) wont allow you to have more equipment dosen't give you a license to break the law. 'IF' you get caught you may be living with your parents much longer than you intend to because no one will hire you to a position of responsibility,
hacking with the "excuse" or obtaining knowledge it a bunch oh bullshit. you do it because you like to....theirs always a way if your willing to find one.
Most of the time the admin(s) appriciate it when I notify them, either way the vulns mostly get fixed, with or without a reply. Yet that doesn't make it right to do so, I know. This issue has been brought up many times.
And nihil, my dad knows enough about computers to understand why I would need multiple computers. Although I don't think he really knows I'm busy with security...not sure, it would be too strange that I would tell him: can I get some other computers, to hack into? Also, we already have 4 computers, of which 2 are mine. That 2nd is completely independent from the wlan as it runs slackware but there are no linux drivers for the adapter I use. (And it cannot be plugged in directly in the router as that one is on another floor).
Excuse me if my post sounds damn boring, to me it sounds like that.
The above sentences are produced by the propaganda and indoctrination of people manipulating my mind since 1987, hence, I cannot be held responsible for this post\'s content
February 11th, 2004, 05:31 PM
Since I sorta got into the middle of this I'll give my take on the original question. No. What MsM said was I suppose, correct in the old sense of the word. It meant guru. So technically you can a vollyball hacker, etc.. But as Specialist said, it no longer really means anything. It is used by the media and MS to scare stupid people and sell more stuff. It has been so completely distorted why even bother with it.
February 11th, 2004, 06:50 PM
Hacking is a good way to test holes in your own system.
February 11th, 2004, 07:09 PM
I want to offer one peice of advice on the word "hacker"
Semantics and grammer are formed by what society uses, not what the past dictates it as. Thus if society sees the word hacker as "someone who penetrates network security" then that is, in fact, what it means because it has become a mainstream and majority standard. It is time to stop fighting the semantics of it, and let it go.
February 11th, 2004, 09:07 PM
This again goes back to defining a hacker. I ask you this. Why would you need to protect yourself from them? Do you see them as bad people? Do you see them as people who abuse security holes and bugs? Do you view them as credit card thieves and people who act in malicious ways against technology?
Originally posted here by R0n1n
No, you do not need to have been a hacker to know how to do computer security well, but you do need to know how hackers operate so you now one of the things you are protecting yourself against.
To me a hacker is much like MsMittens said. Someone who knows a certain subject so well, that he/she might even know more than those who made the computer/car/hockey team/etc...
Speaking technology wise, they know as much as they can and always want to learn more. They will do thier best to figure out how something works, why it works, or even why it doesn't work. They study why it does what it does. They study why it wont do what it wont. They know what could go wrong and what they could possably do to prevent it from going wrong. They will more than likey know how to program using diff. languages. This of course is assuming they are good. (I'm not going to get into the whole White and Black Hat thing) So, is there a bad hacker? If they are malicious, would they be a hacker? I think not, but some may disagree. Overall, they are the security experts that want to do good. They learn as much as they can about the technology out and put forth thier best effort to help it evolve and make it better.