Schwarzenegger for president?
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Thread: Schwarzenegger for president?

  1. #1
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    Schwarzenegger for president?

    should the President of the United States be born in the United States?

    Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah says no and want to change the laws of the land!


    anybody remember a stalone movie "demolition man". through the course of conversation sandra bullock mentions the "Schwarzenegger Libary", when sly is surprised at this she explained how arnold entered politics and an amendment was passed allowing forign born people to run for president and he was elected weeelll...you dont have to remember the movie. here it is:

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040222/D80SGGIG0.html

    The Republican governor said anyone who has been a U.S. citizen for at least 20 years - as he has - should "absolutely" be able to seek the presidency. A constitutional amendment proposed by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, would make that possible.
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

  2. #2
    Senior Member Zonewalker's Avatar
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    well it's your country Tedob - I'd say it's up to the people to decide what you want. If Arnie makes a good politician (and I'm not saying he does or doesn't) then I'd go with what works best. Sometimes it is right to change the process of how things work, but thats only something you guys can decide.

    Don't immigrants to the US have to swear allegiance to the state etc or something when they get their green card (could be off base here so feel free to correct me)? If you do then I can't see why a non natural born american should be treated any differently from a natural born american.....

    just my 2p

    Z
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    Zone I feel the idea of having a president that is native born is for two reasons, one they care about the country, and two they have the countries best intrests at heart. Although this has not been the case with the current administration most previous presidents have cared and tried in the countries intrest. Would you like the UK to be run by an Australian or a South African? Maybe it is just tradition that makes it so strongly rooted, but either way, do not just do it for Arnold. Since I can not vote and therefor have no say I will be in a world of other peoples choices which pisses me off to no end. The other problem is it is really hard to undo a bad thing, no matter how bad... especially laws.

    -Cheers-

  4. #4
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    A “republican” from Utah wanting to toss out the natural birth requirement for presidency? I would be inclined to leave the tradition alone. One could argue that it's politically correct to give every one who is a citizen in this country equal opportunity to lead it. One could also argue the sovereignty of this country is better protected by those born under the constitution whom they are charged to respect on protect. I will tend to align with our fore fathers on this one. To my knowledge constitutional amendments aren’t up for public vote. If they were I would vote no. The children of all those great citizens that hail from differing nations of the world will have the ability to make changes and lead the country. I think the authors of the constitution considered the world a very hostile place (politically), like it is now.

    I don't see justification that a man or woman who lives in Israel or anyplace - let's just throw some countries out there.... India, Japan, Cuba, Argentina, etc - could live in that country for their entire young adult lives, let’s say 30 years of age and come here and run for president when they are 50. How can an American citizen know his history with accuracy and compare his political alignment in the home country with that of American politics? 30 years of age or even 40 would have some very powerful connections and opinions that may not align with the best nature of America as a country on it's own principal. I think the requirement for a nation's most powerful leader to be a natural born citizen is respectable.

  5. #5
    Jaded Network Admin nebulus200's Avatar
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    I don't care who the candidate is or how long they have lived in the US, to change the rules is incredibly shortsighted. This particular part of the constitution helps to shield the US from political tampering by foreign nations and while Mr. Schwarzenegger may pose no particular threat, who is to say that by opening Pandora's box, that the next person that would run would not be a threat?

    Just yet another example of how this once great republic is slowly falling apart under the weight of it having become a decadent empire.
    There is only one constant, one universal, it is the only real truth: causality. Action. Reaction. Cause and effect...There is no escape from it, we are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand the 'why'. 'Why' is what separates us from them, you from me. 'Why' is the only real social power, without it you are powerless.

    (Merovingian - Matrix Reloaded)

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    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    lol Nebulus, people are just raising the subject. Have to wonder, what is the motivation for that move by Sen. Hatch?? America is filled with foreign nationals who may not see the implications of not limiting the nations most powerful position to those born on this soil. I tried to place it in perspective, but just thought of something else.... what if G.W. became Chancelor of Germany or Bill Clinton Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Put that in perspective.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Zonewalker's Avatar
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    I feel the idea of having a president that is native born is for two reasons, one they care about the country, and two they have the countries best intrests at heart.
    Silver- I appreciate that but that was kind of my point about asking if when you get your green card you have to swear allegiance to the country - i.e. you forsake all other allegiences to other countries and agree to serve the best interests of the country you live in. I thought in the US you did have to swear allegiance to the country but I may be wrong....

    who is to say that by opening Pandora's box, that the next person that would run would not be a threat?
    neb - thats very true... but who's to say that a natural born american is not going to try and screw up your country?? You gotta admit that the US has its fair share of folks with very weird ideas (not that you're alone in that respect!) They don't have to be born outside of the US to be able to do screw the country... incidentally are you familiar with Roman history and the fall of the republic then by any chance??

    I'm not saying that you as a country should do this thing by the way....

    Haven't got time to explain myself atthe moment but hopefully I'll come back to this later tonight....

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  8. #8
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    The Constitution allows a native born American to run for president, even if he moves abroad with his parents when he is 6 months old, moves back to the US when he is 40 and tries to run for president at 41. Bet the founding fathers didn't think about that

    It's in the Constitution, and a constitution is what makes a country. Changing it is not done, imo.
    Arnold will have to wait for Arnie Jr.
    They should make an exception for Belgians, though...

  9. #9
    Jaded Network Admin nebulus200's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by Zonewalker
    Silver- I appreciate that but that was kind of my point about asking if when you get your green card you have to swear allegiance to the country - i.e. you forsake all other allegiences to other countries and agree to serve the best interests of the country you live in. I thought in the US you did have to swear allegiance to the country but I may be wrong....



    neb - thats very true... but who's to say that a natural born american is not going to try and screw up your country?? You gotta admit that the US has its fair share of folks with very weird ideas (not that you're alone in that respect!) They don't have to be born outside of the US to be able to do screw the country... incidentally are you familiar with Roman history and the fall of the republic then by any chance??

    I'm not saying that you as a country should do this thing by the way....

    Haven't got time to explain myself atthe moment but hopefully I'll come back to this later tonight....

    Z
    True enough, someone from the US could run with less than altruistic motives (oh wait, they all already do ); however, having lived their entire life in the US, chances are alot higher, that should there be any major skeletons in the closet, they would all be common knowledge and that the risk of a foreign government's influence upon a candidate would be less if they were native citizens (although there is already a great deal of influence from other nations underneath the surface). With that being said, what Negative has said has a great deal of validity and I would have to think on that one a little harder

    And yes, I am quite familiar with Roman history (hence the reference to the fall of a republic to the decadance of an empire).
    There is only one constant, one universal, it is the only real truth: causality. Action. Reaction. Cause and effect...There is no escape from it, we are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand the 'why'. 'Why' is what separates us from them, you from me. 'Why' is the only real social power, without it you are powerless.

    (Merovingian - Matrix Reloaded)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Zonewalker's Avatar
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    True enough, someone from the US could run with less than altruistic motives (oh wait, they all already do ); however, having lived their entire life in the US, chances are alot higher, that should there be any major skeletons in the closet, they would all be common knowledge and that the risk of a foreign government's influence upon a candidate would be less if they were native citizens (although there is already a great deal of influence from other nations underneath the surface). With that being said, what Negative has said has a great deal of validity and I would have to think on that one a little harder

    And yes, I am quite familiar with Roman history (hence the reference to the fall of a republic to the decadance of an empire).
    you make a fair point and certainly I'm not going to entirely disagree with you... but there are people not born in the US who would absolutely love to contribute to American society. If such people are willing to swear allegience to the US and do the best they can for the country then why not give them the chance to better the US. Strength can come from diversity and the ability to adapt quickly, US history itself is part proof of that, so why limit yourselves?

    As I said earlier I'm not suggesting that you guys should make such a change to your constitution but on the other hand I don't think you should totally dismiss it (I'm not saying you should do it for Arnie either... but maybe someone else?).

    As far as influence from other nations.. true, but every country is influenced by other countries ... thats part of being a global community and is not something you'll ever get away from unless America completely isolates itself from the world... and I really don't think that'd be in your best interests in the long run.

    I had guessed you were familiar with Roman history - the comments about the Republic and the decadence of the empire were precisely what gave it away

    Oh yeah... someone asked how I would feel if the UK was run by an Australian or South African... (Silver bullet it was you wasn't it).... well..... the UK monarchy is half German with Greek influence anyway so I think thats already happened to an extent (I realise we're not strictly a monarchy anymore but it illustrates my point). Actually apparently the true heir to the throne is actually an Earl who moved to Australia and is now a republican (I had to laugh when I found that one out).... anyway seriously.... how would I feel... if the person in charge was doing the right thing for the country and the people living in it I couldn't give a damn if they were from Mars - they could hardly do worse than previous or current governments.

    Z
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