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  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Wow I'm with phishphreek on this one. He is clearly stating arguments that is all.
    I don't have anything against m$. I use both Linux and m$.
    He has never in any post I have read bad mouthed Microsoft without a good and reasonable argument to back him up. So cut him a break when you want to bad mouth someone then do a little research and closely examine the opposing point of view before jumping to conclusions. I think if some of you reread his post you may find out it does not say what you may think it does.
    [Shadow] have you ever noticed work is like a tree full of monkeys you look down and all you see is monkeys below you then you look up and all you see is a bunch of *******s above[/shadow]

  2. #12
    AO Łbergeek phishphreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    amon, muert0, are you both retarted!? I said, I'm all for m$ enhancing their security.

    ALL I WAS TRYING TO SAY IS THEY ARE GOING TO CATCH **** FROM OTHER VENDORS BECAUSE THEY ARE BUNDLING PRODUCTS THAT WILL COMPETE WITH SYMANTEC, MACAFEE, ZONE LABS, ETC. They caught **** for the browsers, instant messangers, media players, etc. What will make the "enhanced" firewall and antivirus any different? I didn't say **** badmouthin m$. RE-READ WHAT I'VE POSED. Or, eat a dick, your choice.

    See... now I'm acting like I'm 13... and not cause of my spellin. Cause of retards.
    Quitmzilla is a firefox extension that gives you stats on how long you have quit smoking, how much money you\'ve saved, how much you haven\'t smoked and recent milestones. Very helpful for people who quit smoking and used to smoke at their computers... Helps out with the urges.

  3. #13
    AO Łbergeek phishphreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Originally posted here by muert0

    And they might have added an option in the install not to install the stuff you wont know till you use it.
    And im pretty sure you and everyone else using windows will use it.
    Not only did you not read my posts... you didn't even read the article.

    Ethereal writes "InternetNews.com reports that Microsoft has begun beta-testing a built-in virus scanner for its Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) that will be included in the final product in mid-2004.
    They didn't say ADD-ON, they said BULIT-IN...

    Even so, you just proved my point.

    And im pretty sure you and everyone else using windows will use it.
    Yes, I may enable it. It may save me some $$. But, its also going to loose other companies a lot of money and possibly put them out of business or struggle to make ends meet? Monopolies are illegal. Hell, if they were legal, I'd be all about it. Your points are moot.

    Originally posted here by amon
    i'm sick and tired of those who talk against MS.and especially of those who talk about monopolies.no offence guys, but if you are able to make your own Os, why don't you do that?
    the easy way is to spend great ammounts of time, talking about MS policy and about monopoly.it's like we all became experts.if you think you are capable of doing something better than windows, why don't you do it?i don't see any black costumed guys coming to stop you.if you also decide to keep on argueing about MS, why don't you install linux or even bsd?
    every MS "enemy" has windows installed on his machine.so get rid of windows and take up another OS.but first as i said before format your win partition.talking about bundled software.....as i can recall all linux distros have bundled software such firewalls,games, players bla bla bla.oh i forgot !thats under gpl.they don't have profits.....ok just keep an eye on fedora project guys...
    First off, I didn't talk against m$, and if I did... who cares! I have my right to speach.

    Who ever said I could make a better OS?

    I do have many machines with m$ installed on it. I also have machines with linux installed on it. I prefer linux... I don't pay for it. Its more phun to learn and play on and I have less to worry about. However, I do need m$ to be compatible with the rest of the world.. Mainly work and school.

    Linux doen't have stuff bundled with it unless you WANT it installed. A default install of m$ installs everything. Well, except for a couple of services... such as IIS, and some other rarely used drivers. You can install linux as just the kernel and then install what you want after that, or you can install just some things, or you can install everything.

    Your points are also moot.
    Quitmzilla is a firefox extension that gives you stats on how long you have quit smoking, how much money you\'ve saved, how much you haven\'t smoked and recent milestones. Very helpful for people who quit smoking and used to smoke at their computers... Helps out with the urges.

  4. #14
    AO Part Timer
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    I think I may throw fuel onto a fire. Or perhaps some water to put it out. Depends on how you take what I have to add.

    m$ is a valid abbreviation for Microsoft. You knew what it was didn't you? Don't act like you've never seen it before. If you are jealous of the M$ wealth, or you just think they hold a monoply. The simple fact of the matter is still this, you knew exactly what the fuq he was talking about.

    I won't bother giving my opinions on *nix and m$, because they are both very different. In many ways. Some good some bad. You could take a unix admin who really knows his stuff.But has no experience with overseeing a windows network. Tell him to over see an NT box and watch him ask for help, or worse not ask, and then get owned. Vice-versa also. It isn't so much the OS it is more based on knowledge of the OS. Which is why most of us are here. To either further our knowledge, share what we know, and learn something new.

    /end hijacking

    As far as the intergration part goes. It does kind of sound as if they will be trying to push their software on us. But as we can now do with xp and sp1 just turn the wall off for example. Even if it becomes a problem, somebody will find a way around it. It is only a matter of time.

    be safe and stay free

  5. #15
    Senior Member cwk9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    I am a little conflicted with this one. I would much prefer if it were an add-on and not built since Iíll most likely end up using a more fully featured product anyways. Not to mention that itís adding to an already bloated OS. On the other hand this might be just the thing oblivious home users need. There are legions of people who donít give flying F*** if there computer has blaster as long as they can still get there e-mail.
    Its not software piracy. Iím just making multiple off site backups.

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    hey phish,
    u wanna borrow one of those fire retardent suits from me? ive only just got out of a flaming session from another forum and dont need it anymore, here you go *passes*, u may need it in this thread
    Just wait till i get my slappin gloves on.....

  7. #17
    AO Ancient: Team Leader
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    This thread has been a perfect example of the problem M$, (Microsoft for you Pooh, ) has today.

    Everyone whines like 9 year olds that M$' security sucks..... M$ does someting about it..... Everyone bitches that it will either be:-

    a. Useless
    b. be monopolistic and force others out of business.

    Girls and boys - newsflash - You can't have it both ways!!!!!!

    If they don't build it in then the vast majority of their user base won't use it because they don't know it exists _or_ they don't understand what it is there for. That's why M$ is turning on the firewall - because there are 100 million users that own it but haven't turned it on.

    On a final note: Everything M$ does to protect the general user base, (read: "Your granny"), helps you and me by minimizing the infection vectors available out there, that in turn reduces traffic, false alarms on IDS' etc. etc. etc. which makes all our jobs just a little easier.
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides

  8. #18
    Senior Member IKnowNot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Xpís firewall is not the greatest, and Iíve disabled it on all XP machines, BUT I think it should definitely be on by default ... it is certainly better then nothing, and that is what most people are running, nothing!

    How about the other vendors running a check upon install to see if the M$ firewall ( and/or new anti-virus ) is running and give the admin of the machine the option of not installing, or automatically turning off M$ís ďbuilt-inĒ during the install of the third party app?

    If M$ encouraged this it might help keep the monopoly hounds off their backs while still providing some desperately needed default security that everyone has been screaming about.
    ( is this a win-win situation? Can I have it both ways this way? )

    Tiger Shark, although I applaud M$ for their current efforts, and even their past in helping to get computers into mainstream life, it is the past that has cast a shadow over their intentions
    ( ďDo something right, no one ever remembers, do one thing wrong, no one ever forgetsĒ )
    I donít think we need to get into what M$ has done wrong, I think you can get my point.

    I didnít understand amonís reference to the Fedora Project. Anyone catch what was meant?
    " And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be" --Miguel Cervantes

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    To be honest...
    I dont like software based firewalls. Never have. I dont like windows firewall because when enabled it breaks applications. You have to make a lot of adjustments etc. When XP home hit the market, so many users who dont know what they are doing were lost because it puckered up all the ports. Certain apps wouldnt work as they should etc. Now the user installing a firewall usually knows what they are doing and makes the right adjustments/holes. The average user who dont even know what a firewall is, and has one "included" with the operating system will soon be lost as to why his vid conferencing software, gaming software etc etc etc dont work.

    That was just MY experience with it.

    My firewall at my servers location used to be a linksys, but that had issues... (choked out at any kind of real load) so now Im running a netopia.

    Bottom line is a hardware firewall, when properly configured, will protect you from a lot. Couple that with a good Antivirus thats CONSTANTLY updated, a TRAINED user that knows what not to open (and knows they arent really the 50000th visitor, they arent REALLY getting free things in attachments, etc) and patch your windows boxes with CRITICAL updates (not all the lets install medial player 9 etc to "enhance" your experience type patches) and you will find you are like me, running for years now without a security issue or virus hitting.

    My .02 ...
    Remember -
    The ark was built by amatures...
    The Titanic was built by professionals.

  10. #20
    The Doctor Und3ertak3r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    I didnít understand amonís reference to the Fedora Project. Anyone catch what was meant?
    isn't that a RH distro? oops.. dare I call it RH's Testing ground? other than another distro to test out.. **** 4 ISO's in the distro (plus 4 more for the source)..

    Has anyone realy complained about the shoddy construction of Sony and Panasonic Televisions or their DVD recorders, stereo systems.. if these bloody companies ever learnet to solder correctly 54% of all faults in their equipment would dissappear overnight.. talk about monopolies.. these guy's with Philips form a world electronic/electrical cartel that DO control what you and I buy and how.. No one can even get a chance at the courts with these buggers, they make M$ look like tinker toy on a freeway.. Or our memories are so piss poor.. only 20years ago IBM WAS a world leading monopoly.. , and they still build crap and manage to sell it of as office equipment..

    This was not meant as a pro or anti M$ statement.. I work with Win during the day and play with *nix at night, they both piss me off.. the companies that are playing with linux would dearly love to have "Market share", why else would IBM want to invest in *nix? or how about Sun it isn't exactly a play toy on the in the game? At the end of the day ALL of these companies couldn't give a rats arse about security or reliable or stable they are ALL concerned about their bottom line.. They will do whatever they need to, to get the BL looking great.

    hmm reminds me.. my share's in Apple need to be updated...........................

    cheers guys..
    "Consumer technology now exceeds the average persons ability to comprehend how to use it..give up hope of them being able to understand how it works." - Me http://www.cybercrypt.co.nr

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