March 11th, 2004, 10:38 PM
Most owners are that ignorant they are not even registered with MS.. When GM has a Recall they still have to set up advertisments..why?
when something they release is screwed up, they do what is called a "Recall" and they send out that information, by mail, to all the owners of their product.
Both sides of the argument here have very valid points.. Every OS has holes, every OS has the potential to be comprimised.. If You were to use the an automibile in comparison.. Vehicle owners are "booked" every day for having "unsafe vehicles" because of their ignorence.. that is other than those who deliberatly drive unsafe vehicles.. "aah, so that is what that noise is officer".. trouble is most computer users don't hear the noise or see the bald tyres, some leave the maintainance to the 10yearold inhome computer expert or the 12 yearold from down the road who gets the printer working that the 10yrold can't..
Question: What is the first hole in the operating System is Netsky using?
Answer: User (ID-ten-T errors)
very true.. especially if the user shows that they are taking "Reasonable Care"..yes my system is auto patched, the Av defs update daily, and the firewall is set to parnoid..
you cannot hold someone liable for the actions of another who is acting in secret.
"Consumer technology now exceeds the average persons ability to comprehend how to use it..give up hope of them being able to understand how it works." - Me http://www.cybercrypt.co.nr
March 11th, 2004, 11:04 PM
I think the car anaology is missing something, the thrid party that takes control of it and uses your lack of maintenance and upkeep to crash it into SCO's front door and maim the watchman eating a donut.
//edit haven't heard the ID Ten joke for a while.
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
March 12th, 2004, 12:06 AM
I've read the thread, and I think that the main point is being missed, the article seems ? to be implying that 'if you take NO precautions / do not act responsibly ? THEN you COULD be up for the courts. Also it is not saying that it IS happening, just that the POTENTIAL is there, it will probably happen in the next couple of years ?? and IMHO it will not be any IT Professional, who by dint of their job description will be 'acting responsibly ? and hopefully will have the system hardened. And it definately will NOT be some poor old granny, If it HAS to happen, we can only hope that Mr S. Kiddie will be on the spot,
"Irresponsible ?? Me; No Officer, I was just doing me mate a favour, No sir, I haven't seen him for a while. Since the day of the alleged incident actually"
55 - I'm fiftyfeckinfive and STILL no wiser,
Beware of Geeks bearing GIF's
come and waste the day :P at The Taz Zone
March 12th, 2004, 06:41 AM
Another angle on this is that is now a criminal offence to send SPAM from the UK to private email addresses. This was an EU directive, so this will soon be true for the whole of the EU.
So using the same argument, it could mean that the owner of a hijacked PC could be prosecuted. I don't think there is anything in the UK legislation that says it has to be intentional, which really comes back to the question as to whether or not you can be held negligent for allowing this to happen ....
I agree that MS should make CDs for things like WinXP SP1 available for free.
And they should definitely do so when they release SP2.
You can get things like this for 'free' if you buy certain PC magazines, as it will be on the cover disk. But of course, you do have to pay for the magazine!
March 12th, 2004, 02:33 PM
Take the computer owner to court..... Accuse him/her of not taking reasonable precautions to protect their system and the "cover all" answer that sends them straight home without even a slap on the wrist will be.............
"But, you honor, I turn it off when I'm not using it"
We are really back to the age old argument that Government needs to keep it's dumb nose out of things it really doesn't understand..... But we all know that government has no clue how to do that either.....
Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
\"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides
March 12th, 2004, 06:37 PM
The fact is computers will always be broken into, there will always be security problems, not even the whitehouse's webserver was safe. So its there fault they didnt secure their server? Im sure they have 100 techs workign 24/7 trying to secure it but they still cant. Ok so home users should install a firewall and antivirus and so on. Shouldnt they be able to go buy a pc and it should 'just work' like in the good old days. Therefore in conclusion i blame microsoft
All your node are belong to us.
March 12th, 2004, 06:51 PM
I'm not sure this is entirely MSs fault.
Sure, their software is full of holes, but if they sold a new version of Windows that included a proper firewall & AV scanner, what would the reaction be?
Anti trust law suits in the US & the EU, so they are really in a no win situation here.
Look at IE, Java, Media player etc. etc.
MS would love to snap up a couple of companies & include their software.
I've never understood this anti trust argument - if you don't like Windows then go for linux instead, which is becoming a genuine competitor for your average home user.
Why shouldn't MS be allowed to do all it can to secure its systems ?
March 12th, 2004, 07:20 PM
Microsoft should be able to bundle a companys firewall and antivirus with their product and have it on by default. This would be the most acceptable solution and is as far as microsoft should go. But with the trusted computing solution they have came up with they have gone too far. Microsoft should provide security tools with their software and have advice on how to use them so the end user has everything they need for basic security with their computer. They can still use another firewall if they wish ect, but the average person is still protected.
I admit its a tough thing to balance.
All your node are belong to us.
March 12th, 2004, 08:14 PM
Shouldnt they be able to go buy a pc and it should 'just work' like in the good old days.