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Thread: Big brother wants more eyes....

  1. #21
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    Lol, yeah, before you know it, you'll see WinXP SP2 with a NSAtokeepyouSafe default account on it.

    I'm not too concerned about any of it. I mean, I disagree with the government on this, and I don't think they'll actually catch anyone that knows what they're doing. It wouldn't surprise me if they contracted out the jobs for surveillence and the contractor sold personal information to Ad companies. But, I've got my trusty packet filters, PGP, freenet, and Waste, so I hope I'm somewhat safe.
    Is there a sum of an inifinite geometric series? Well, that all depends on what you consider a negligible amount.

  2. #22
    AO Ancient: Team Leader
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    Let's look at this sensibly.... Either the FBI logs every packet going across the internet or it targets individuals. The first case is ridiculous...... They couldn't do it and then they couldn't make any sense of it. So they have target the individual. In order to do that they determine the ISP of the individual and "wiretap" it. Let's say the individual is smart and builds an encrypted tunnel. If the FBI wants them badly enough they can probably crack the encryption in a few days. But lets say the individual has one single ounce of common sense. They pick up their laptop, (or even their pocket PC), and drive off down the street to the house of another that has an unsecured Wireless Access Point, preferably from a different ISP. He sets up shop across the street, creates a new encrypted tunnel to his "brothers in arms" and bingo..... untracked and untrackable, (unless you follow him everywhere and sniff everything he sends which he will most certainly notice).

    It hardly takes rocket science to work this out. With a bit more thought I'm sure I could come up with a series of other ways to make it impossible for the FBI to decide what I was doing. Of course, it hardly took rocket science for the FBI to come up with a plan that is so full of holes either.....
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides

  3. #23
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    If anyone were to be pressured to put in backdoors... I'd suspect m$ first. Why? Because the .gov has the power to influence m$. The US.gov doesn't have the power to make developers of Linux to insert a backdoor.
    I read a conspiracy theory about MS including white rabbit code in their software. Anybody else hear of this before? Couldn't find anything via google.

    This is actually kind of funny. I could see the government trying this. I could see the masses accepting it for their "saftey".

    How many more things are you folks gonna trade away for the illusion of saftey? What are you gonna let them take our guns next?

    Wiretaps are already legal. Does this really suprise any of you?
    The only way we can win this war is to take the power back from the folks who have broken the system. This requires a large movement. I don't see today's society as having the spine to do this.

    I have three things to say.

    **** Corporate America

    Freedom is a Myth

    Fascism has many disguises

    2 cents

    /rant



    as far as the logic in this tracking of the internet, there is none. The idea is insane.
    Your heart was talking, not your mind.
    -Tiger Shark

  4. #24
    the beign of authority kurt_der_koenig's Avatar
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    scheisse!!!!!
    dopeydadwarf> I heard of white rabbit but don't know anything about it! I believe what you say! That the people here today do not have the spine to do this! I look around and I am disgusted! I think there are still some people who would want to take the power back!*cough*mich*cough*. These are the end of days!

    1. Be pararnoid!
    2. Buy a panzer
    3. Find God!
    4. Rage a crusade!
    here here see you on the line lol

  5. #25
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    Well your ISP can hold almost a endless ammount of information on you. The problem is well... few will ever keep this inforation for long periods of time if at all. But there is nothing to prevent the feds from getting the right papers which say its fine for them to investigate you and force various providers to become their base of operations. That SHOULD be enought.

  6. #26
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    Yesterday I PMed someone.. You know what she told me? She said to stop taking stuff way too serioulsy. Okay, now here is my advice to you all, STOP TAKING THINGS WAY TOO SERIOULSY. In case no one noticed, there was a big huge backdoor in Unix up to 1984 (I think). I am not saying that it WILL happen, I am saying that it is POSSIBLE. Take what you know and then take what you think is possible (what I said, for example) and ANALIZE IT!

    It amazes me that humans have gotten so far without a brain. My friend once told me what I will tell you: "It isn't nuclear weapons that will bring the end of humanity, it's you." So my advice to you is to stop looking like a bunch of idiots. Now, I am going to go now and when I come back I will have a new user name. If any of you decide to grow a brain between now and when I come back tomorrow maybe you will find me and can trash me some more. :-) Have fun my little idiots. :-D

    Oh! And to the way you guys are treating me, I quote from a dear sweet lover of mine said after we broke up: "You should go on springer. At least there someone could kick you in the throat for being a bitch."

  7. #27
    I am not saying that it WILL happen, I am saying that it is POSSIBLE.
    Not possible, at least with linux. You can compile it yourself.

    Take what you know and then take what you think is possible (what I said, for example) and ANALIZE IT!
    Linux is open source. Analyze THAT!

    If any of you decide to grow a brain between now and when I come back tomorrow maybe you will find me and can trash me some more. :-) Have fun my little idiots. :-D


    Take it easy bud.

    Soda

  8. #28
    Just a Virtualized Geek MrLinus's Avatar
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    Sigh.

    People do sometimes take things the wrong way. n73ux56e, when I suggested to let something drop, I was referring to the thread you bumped up, not everything. But how you deal with things is your choice. I merely gave back feedback. What strikes me is that you seem intent on pushing people's buttons rather than participating with the thread and I'm not sure why this is, unless I'm misunderstanding what it is you're trying to get across.

    Perhaps we can get this discussion back on track.

    Point 1: Anything is possible. Certainly there could be a backdoor put into Linux. However, the chance of it remaining there, given the amount of "eyes" that see the code, is low. That said, however, the chance of someone putting a backdoor into a Windows system or a pre-compiled *nix (a non-open source type) and it remaining there would be higher but again, I'd think someone would detect.

    Point 2: The concept that one has "privacy" on the internet is laughable. Let's be real here, folks. There is no privacy. The protocol didn't have it designed in it. The protocol wasn't designed for it. You have to deliberately add it after the fact. So even IF (and IMHO, that's a big if) they were to ensure better "wiretapping" the reality of it being effective against the encryption tools that are added on top of the clear-text protocol becomes nil. It defeats the purpose.

    Point 3: In order to do this would require a redesign and rebuild of hardware. Who's going to pay the ISPs and NOCs to replace the equipment as well as train them on the changes (I would expect that there would be some new requirements for the hardware in regards to logging and auditing)? Those kind of costs, in the billions, wouldn't be cheap.

    Point 4: Until the US truly deals with the issue of personal privacy (and there is NO provision in the US Constitution for Privacy), it's a crap shoot.

    IMHO, the only reason why they want to do this is to gain control over something they cannot control: the Internet.

    That said, someone did bring up one point that made me go.. Hrmmmmm. What if, (and let's say that the FBI did get this passed and had oodles of money to give to the ISPs/NOCs to replace the hardware and such), they did do this. I have rules here in Canada that protect my privacy. What stops me from suing the US Government for violating my privacy? The Internet isn't just in the US and the packets that pass will be destined for anywhere. Who says they have a right to violate MY privacy as a non-American?

    Anyways, me thinks everyone needs to calm down a bit as this could be a worthwhile discussion and it may be something that will need to be dealt with given the push by the present US administration to get them "evil terrorists".
    Goodbye, Mittens (1992-2008). My pillow will be cold without your purring beside my head
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  9. #29
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    THANK YOU MS. MITTENS! I said that in order to understand why this is happening we must understand the reasons for this and the effects that this could have on people. The entire 'essay' was supposed to tell you people about stuff, not necessarily what I think. I am sorry. :-P

    And monix, I think that because I put a lot of time in that post I should be able to ask for some antipoints. Okay, is two hours not enough? If it makes you feel so bad, though, I won't ask in the future. Meanie.

    Soda_Popinsky, take a note from the Unix thingie. It is possible to do stuff like placing a backdoor in the OS. Unless you can see and edit the compiled code (sorry for the sarcasism), you really can't be sure. Also, just because Linux is open souce doesn't mean it is protected from threats. Perhaps I am thinking in the extreme with this stuff, but it IS POSSIBLE to do lots of things. You are just one person and if a group of people wanted to do something, it could. For example, unless you go out an check all the code line by line and map out what is connected to what, you can't be reasonably sure of anything. Even then you still can't be sure. Someone can do something to a complier so that after you edit all that you want/need to edit some bad code gets put in somewhere. Okay, unless you start the entire computer revolution from scratch again, how can you be sure that you don't have a backdoor somewhere? Answer me that, please.

  10. #30
    Just a Virtualized Geek MrLinus's Avatar
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    And monix, I think that because I put a lot of time in that post I should be able to ask for some antipoints. Okay, is two hours not enough? If it makes you feel so bad, though, I won't ask in the future. Meanie.
    Actually, asking for APs is kinda like begging for OPs on IRC or entering into a channel and going "A/S/L?". It's kinda lame. People will give you APs when they feel you've done something to help them or that something you've done deserves it. Quite often, you'll most likely get them when you don't ask.

    So some more advice: stop asking for APs. It's kinda lame.

    BTW, what economics book were you referencing? (Name/author)
    Goodbye, Mittens (1992-2008). My pillow will be cold without your purring beside my head
    Extra! Extra! Get your FREE copy of Insight Newsletter||MsMittens' HomePage

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