April 11th, 2004, 02:02 AM
So he DID know beforehand......
It seems that GWB got a memo 8/6/01 that informed him that Al-Quaida had a support system in place, operatives in the country and was planning an attack or a hijacking. Admittedly, 30 days is not much warning, but it was STILL time enough to tighten the security and potentially save a lot of lives. I think the old boy blundered big-time on this one.
Read it here.
Think about it....you know they're here because you know who some of them are. Airports should have had a photo of every known terrorist with orders to put security check points in place. I don't really want to start a war on racial profiling here, but in this case it may well have stopped a tragedy. An exam of that particular flavor of humans in the 18 to 35 age group might have made a difference.
It isn't paranoia when you KNOW they're out to get you...
April 11th, 2004, 04:12 AM
I agree that they should be searching for known terrorists but racial profiling is just plain shitty, i don't mean any hostility, but imagine running to your flight, and suddenly you're being searched, because you are ****. Fill in the blank, it really doesn't matter what you are, because you're being searched because of the color of your skin, not your personal history or present actions. Anyone can do anything, it doesn't matter their race
Airports should have had a photo of every known terrorist with orders to put security check points in place. I don't really want to start a war on racial profiling here, but in this case it may well have stopped a tragedy. An exam of that particular flavor of humans in the 18 to 35 age group might have made a difference.
A mind full of questions has no room for answers
April 11th, 2004, 04:45 AM
Well, when did they come into the country and put this all in place? 32 days before 9/11? I think not. It's easy to **** on the president now, but things like that don't happen over night, nor does the planning happen over night.
This stuff has been going on for years before the current administration... let's spread the blame evenly.
April 11th, 2004, 04:52 AM
The guy that resigned was there for Clinton as well there for his action during Clintons would not be interupted when it changed to GWB. I think it is his fault and will always be his fault even if he does not accept it.
April 11th, 2004, 05:48 AM
You're right groovicus....there is plenty of blame to go around.....bin laden and his cronies were making trouble as far back as the Carter administration. I'd just like to hear someone clear up just WHEN the administration KNEW something was going on.
hidden...I'm not condoning racial profiling on a broad basis. However, if there is a known threat, as was the case here then take the steps that need to be taken. In this case we had arab men of a certain age demographic, who had spent time in certain countries that posed a threat. I'm not saying it would have made a difference, but then again I'd rather have to deal with a pissed off US-based arab community than to watch those planes hit those buildings again.
It isn't paranoia when you KNOW they're out to get you...
April 11th, 2004, 06:35 AM
I hope you don't think I was picking on you specifically allenb1963, because I wasn't. In this case, I fail to see where finding fault does any good.... people died, people are still dying, people will continue to die....I think one of our shortcomings as a nation is that we can't get past the blame. The time for blame is over, the time to act is now, I think George Bush recognizes this, as do many other countries....
As Coni Rice said (paraphrasing) "We have to be right 100% of the time, the terrorists only have to be right once...." (lol..she makes Hillary look like a retard)
My personal opinion is that if I don't make a few mistakes a day, then I am not trying hard enough to extend myself... but then again, I am not responsible for peoples lives either (at least not in life or death situations)
I don't envy anybody that is involved in national security...mess up once and your ass gets handed to you on a platter... and it's not just a matter of trying to guess what is going to happen in the next year, or decade. Try figuring out what kind of threats we are going to face in 50 years when all the mideast countries run out of oil (or 100 years, whatever)... what the hell are they going to do for income then? My guess is invade some other country that has some exploitable natural resources....
As far as 9/11 goes, who on earth could ever guess that some ****-knockers would hijack commercial airliners and crash them into buildings? I think if someone told me that was going to happen, I'd be inclined to ask them what they were smoking.....
April 11th, 2004, 10:27 AM
The thing is that all the memos I have ever seen mentioned in the media (including this one) supposedly alerting senior figures within the Government to September 11th are very sketchy in details. They mention possible attacks, but no specific dates, places or people. Now, had the security services deliberately ignored a letter that said "These members of al-Quieda are going to attack the Twin Towers via a plane on September 11th" then I could see them being blamed for not reacting. However, as far as I am aware from what I have read in the media (and I presume most people here only have the media to go on) no specifics were given so you can't blame anyone for not acting to stop these terrorists.
As for tightening security, you have to be very careful how you go about doing that if you're taking a pro-active rather than a re-active stance. Too much security and you send people into a panic and therefore effectively do the terrorists' job for them, albeit with less loss of life.
April 11th, 2004, 04:52 PM
The memo mentions Bin Laden planning to hijack planes in the United States. I think that was enough information to keep the CIA, FAA and the Immigration Department with their eyes wide opened. I also doubt that these agencies require some sort of pre authorization from the President to do their jobs as they were suppost to. For example, how they allowed one of the hijackers who had previous trouble with the Immigration back in this country beats the hell out of me. And again, this is not something you call the National Security about. I think most government workers/public servants, don't give a rat about their jobs. They just want a paycheck , job security and early retirement. All they really care about is some dumb annual evaluation given by an immediate supervisor who they're usually good friends with. People tend to ignore things such as possibilities of disasters because it takes them too far from their routine. It's a complicated concept to grasp. Take for instance the subject of AIDS. Most people don't believe they're at risk. Another example, on 9/11, while the towers were burning. Nobody thought those buildings would fall. Nobody thought America could be so vulnerable, and yet we were and still are.
April 11th, 2004, 05:22 PM
Er... we were and still are quite vulnerable; not to an invading army, but to our president. Even if 9/11 was not completely counterable as many of you suggest pointing fingers does nothing. This will solve nothing, there is no reason to blame anybody anymore. The issues now are things that were passed as a direct result of this that piss on the Constitution like Patriot Act I and II.
April 11th, 2004, 05:23 PM
You also have to bear in mind that you can guarantee that Bush was told.... "this is what is going on, don't worry we're handling it Boss". What would Bush himself be expected to do, go out to all the airports and screen everyone himself????
The whole subject is ludicrous, especially when you realize it is only being done to try to gain political advantage.....
Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
\"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides