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Thread: Al Qaida's Reaction To Iraqi Prisoner's

  1. #51
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    Umm the BBC is not main stream?
    Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?

  2. #52
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    bballad, I don't watch fox. I don't have a tv in fact only a monitor to watch DVDs and sometimes I may watch a fuzzy PBS show (Ok I guess I do have a tv just not hooked up). If I said soldiers were running around eating babies for food because I support there death and demise as well as the humiliation of the country I hate, I wouldn't expect you to believe it. I also wouldn't expect you to accept it for truth if is was only a few stories out of hundreds of thousands of people all over the country. If that was the case I would assume the entire muslum continent to be filled with the same insanity those men have who hacked away a human life behind masks. I would make the conclusion that they are all like that because that might be what I want, I may want a result and then look for any scrap of information to support it, instead of having an open mind and filtering data based on evidence.

    I should watch Fox though, since all the liberal blogs bash it along with everything else they hate, which is an ever increasing list I find daily.

    BBC is a good source if they list who it came from and not just carrying something with no real source attached. The truth is bballad an abulance got shot in what the blogs call "the most bloodiest battle since the end of major hostility." They "think" is was by the US and I still claim that someone shooting at that **** for fun is an ******* and should be handed over to Iraqi police along with the prisoners Al Quida wants. They would probably execute them all. A soldier shooting an ambulance defies logic, even in a hardened combat zone. There just is not conclusive way to tell who did it, at least enough to draw up evidence to prosecute. That article is a few weeks old.

    Perhaps if the snipers stopped the ambulance, cut out the baby with a knife and cooked it on TV you would have a better stance in your point.
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  3. #53
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    I found Tiger Sharks observations interesting, as I have been on business to the middle east in the past (about 5 years ago) - Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, and Bahrain.

    Guess where I had alcohol in Saudi??
    Yup, at a party being hosted by a member of the royal family.

    Incidentally, the number of killings and bomb attacks in Saudi have increased significantly since the US left. Al Quidea has made no secret of the fact that it wants to overthrow the existing regime and replace it with a fundamentalist one, like Afghanistan.
    You can see their point to some extent, given the way the existing regime operates.

    In response to groovicus, the problem with "ambulances" is that in the past they have been proved to have not been the real thing, and used to smuggle weapons and/or explosives to terrorists.

    Curiously, the BBC have withdrawn their original piece about the use of a soldiers head as a football. I guess they are waiting for more confirmation about this, but they did believe it to be true.

    Not sure about Iraq, but we are in the position of being able to create democracy in that part of the world, as opposed to letting it descend into anarchy and chaos. Running away, like Spain has done, does not seem to me to be even remotely justified.

  4. #54
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    So the first hand account by third party multi national humanitarian worksers...we can just ignore those reportes.....i guess they fall in the same catagory as the redcrosses abuse reports about our jails in iraq, every one knows our guys woudn't do that...oh wait the pictures.
    Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?

  5. #55
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    I don't know how to break this to you kids..... but I'll try......

    It was a common practice of PIRA, (Provisional IRA), to use women with prams, (baby stroller for those who no speaka da eeeengleesh), with real live babies in them to be the "mule" that takes in and removes the sniper's weapon.... in the pram with the baby. They didn't really give a rats a$$ that the baby was being put in danger along with it's mother but it did play on the stereotypes inherent in the minds of the "enemy" that could, and often would, protect the assets most valuable to the organization. Terrorists worldwide know that the stereotypes of their enemy are often their weakness. It's far from "pie in the sky" to believe that those with malicious intent in Iraq woudn't know that and understand that soldiers are extremely reticent to fire upon an ambulance. It's also far from fantasy to think that at some point in this conflict they haven't already used an ambulance as a form of attack.

    Grunts, for all most people look down on them aren't stupid..... Information regarding enemy tactics moves fast through the ranks and they grasp the potential danger rather quickly, and they learn to drop the stereotype. They don't fire willy nilly at things but they do become much less likely to follow their "old" instinct not to fire when the situation may not seem "quite safe".
    If you were ever in a front line military unit you will know that, for the most part, your responsibility is to yourself and your unit. It isn't to constantly look out for the people they don't know and have never seen before, (but in many instances they place their life at extreme risk to look out for just such people), it is to keep themselves and their buddies alive. The decisions are made in a very short time, often under a second, but the consequences often last someone a lifetime, or at least the few seconds remaining of their life as the situation unfolds. Whether, with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight the decision was right or wrong in the eyes of the world these man act under extreme duress in a matter of seconds. There is discipline, there is questioning of the decision by the decision-maker, but there is always a decision to act that is taken with the information available at that moment......

    Until you have made those decisions yourself you are only being an armchair cowboy trying to second guess those who were actually on the ground, at the time, with their unit around them and a decision to make. Reading arbitrary reports from unqualified, disassociated and in most cases hostile civilians about their 'take" on a situation is about as valid as reading a report on the Superbowl written by a member of a newly discovered tribe of South American natives that was transported to the game as his first experience of modern culture. For a football fan it would be worthless as are the reports from the "I was there, I saw it all" civilians that are having their uneducated view splattered all over the media for the equally uneducated to see.

    Let the poor bastards do their job..... The one _you_ clearly aren't doing if you are whining so hard about the way they do it. It is quite clear that the soldiers themselves are the one that "turned in" their fellow soldiers by the fact that the media is reporting how long this reports have been available..... thus proving that we aren't talking about a bunch of thugs prosecuting a war. When you see pictures in the media and reports of "atrocities" be intelligent enough to see them for what they are..... attempts to undermine, and therefore put at risk, the men and women who are doing a job most people don't have the intestinal fortitude to even consider doing themselves.
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides

  6. #56
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    Nice one Tiger..................well said. Latest news here is that the Daily Arsewipe (Mirror) pictures are definitely fakes..............I do not expect mr. Piers Dickhead to survive long now

    I only broke the rules (God's) 11 times.............yeah, snipers count............but how may of these whingers have actually been shot at? been wounded? seen mates killed?

    As you imply: "Let our boys (and girls) do their job"

    And may God/Jaweh/Allah bless them all

    My personal thoughts folks.........

  7. #57
    HeadShot Master N1nja Cybr1d's Avatar
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    So the first hand account by third party multi national humanitarian worksers...we can just ignore those reportes.....i guess they fall in the same catagory as the redcrosses abuse reports about our jails in iraq, every one knows our guys woudn't do that...oh wait the pictures.
    The Boston Globe, a reputable newspaper agency, also under the control of the New York Times, recently showed pictures of US soldiers raping iraqi women...and wrote a whole article on the matter. NOTE: They were the only newspaper agency, amongs the several agencies that saw the pictures, which wrotte the article. It went through 3 Editors and it was approved to be printed.

    TODAY: The Boston Globe, a reputable news paper agency, liberal for that matter, finds out and writes an article, explaining that the Images that they showed and all that information was FALSE, and the images came from a hard core porn website, and the rapes were all staged. All the other newspaper agencies saw the pictures, and decided that they looked way too suspicious and decided to do some research before printing it out....

    #1. A sniper does not reveal himself or his location, hence if the ambulances were being shot at by snipers, They would have no clue where they were getting shot from, and who was shooting at them...but cuz we are unpatriotic and we all hate the US for actually doing the right thing, we automatically assume and blindly accuse the US of shooting ambulances and kids and women. If a woman picks up a gun, she will get shot. If a kid picks up a gun, he will get shot...end of story. No ifs or buts, they will get shot because they pose a threat to the soldiers. A 10 or 13 year old can very easily pull the trigger on an AK and shoot your best buddy in the head...and trust me...its not so farfetched as it sounds. Some African tribes have militiamen at that age carrying AKs and RPGs.

    #2. The US military WAS THE ONE who discovered the prisoner abuse, and made it public. It WAS NOT the media who discovered them...so get your facts straight.

    #3. Most of the abuse on the prisoners was in effort to get information from them. New pictures unfolded recently show to be worse than the previous, we have to wait for an explanation for them from the authorities and the officials. You cannot make an intelligent assumption on the treatment of the prisoners unless you really know what you're talking about, and not because 20/20 or 60 minutes said so. (They're 2 shows in the US). If the abuse was indeed to get information, GET OVER IT. If the abuse was just to be cruel, it will be dealt with, and we have the balls to admit it.

    #4. If you are guarding in that prison, and you notice one of the prisoners is the person who shot and killed your friend who was right next to you during combat, would you really give a **** about the geneva convention or hit the prisoner in the face with a brick? We are all animals, but the majority of us has learned to subdue that animal instinct and act more human. War and Grief brings that animal part of us out...dont ask for an explanation, its our nature. You and me have no Idea what those soldiers are going through, so we cannot judge their actions just because the one eye blind media said something. Some of you who have served in the armed forces, whom I thank from the bottom of my heart for putting your life at risk for my freedom, can presume what they're going through.

    #5. Whenever you hear something, or see something on TV or read something on the newspaper, you have to use common sense to differentiate from what looks like complete bullshit and what seems like facts. If something seems farfetched do not be affraid to challenge it and get other sources to prove that information. Remember the Media is made up of people whom are affected by political and personal factors as well. Just because a Liberal media source said Bush is a woman...you should not automatically presume thats true and go around sounding like an ignorant jackass telling people Bush is a woman. (get my point?)

    #6. If I may quote from : http://www.newswales.co.uk/?section=...cs&F=1&id=6831
    The soldiers did not search the bus, they just stepped on, had a quick look and gave us humvee escort to the next checkpoint - somehting we certainly did not want and which, in fact, put us in more danger. At the next checkpoint, those of us who could walk had to get off the bus with our passports.
    I'm pretty sure the person writting this has no idea why the soldiers were doing that, and what information the soldiers might have had. I'm 99.9 percent sure that the soldiers were not doing it out of fun to move people around with humvees.

    bballad, did you read the whole articles that you mentioned or did you just read the beginning and assume everything you read was true?

    I'll continue to quote: from BBC's, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3653223.stm

    By who? The probability is by US snipers," he said.

    Asked whether these were warning or attacking shots, he said: "One was shot two or three times - a sniper does not shoot an ambulance three times by mistake."

    British aid worker Jo Wilding said an ambulance she was in, with flashing lights, siren blaring and "ambulance" written on it in English, was hit as it drove to collect a woman in premature labour.

    Ms Wilding is sure the shots came from American troops.

    "You can tell the shape of US marine from a mujahideen - even if you can only see a silhouette, the helmet and flak jacket are quite distinctive. Also, we were in a US-controlled part of town," she told BBC News Online.

    Iraqi doctor Salam al-Obaidi, a member of the Doctors for Iraq humanitarian society, worked in Falluja for six days during the fighting.

    Speaking to BBC News Online, he described seeing colleagues blown up in an ambulance - also clearly marked - travelling in front of him as his team tried to enter a US-controlled area.

    "I saw the ambulance disappear - not all of it, but the front of it, the side where the driver and paramedic were," he said.


    Some homes were destroyed in the fighting
    He said he and two more colleagues were injured in a second explosion. He still does not know the fate of the two people in the first ambulance.

    In a separate incident, Dr Obaidi said, a driver and paramedic in an ambulance were shot in a US-controlled area - one in the chest, the other in the eyes.

    The injured civilians inside the ambulance bled to death during the next two days as warning shots were fired when the team tried - four times - to return to collect the ambulance, he said.
    They "believed" the bullets were coming from US soldiers...wow because its very hard for an Iraqi to shoot an ambulance? Remember one thing, We have something thats called RULES OF ENGAGEMENT...we do not shoot unless we're shot upon. Also, how come british soldiers are not mentioned anywhere in any article????

    "I saw the ambulance disappear - not all of it, but the front of it, the side where the driver and paramedic were," he said.
    LANDMINE???!?!??!?!??!?! to shoot part of an ambulance off you'd need an RPG...not a sniper rifle...and RPG would have to be shot from somewhere...hence the person would normally say THE ****IGN THING GOT SHOT OFF WITH AN RPG...not IT JUST ****ING DISAPPEARED!?

    If we're shooting vehicles, it's because those vehicles have shot at us," he said.

    US officials have said that on one occasion, an insurgent gunman was seen fleeing in an ambulance, and that weapons have been found in an aid convoy west of the city.

    Coalition military spokesman Brigadier General Mark Kimmit said that there have been "a lot of people running around the city with blankets on their vehicles asserting that they are ambulances".

    There was concern that these could have been loaded with explosives, he said.
    Self explanatory...read the whole article next time...perhaps your argument will hold some water.


    EDIT: Nihil beat me to the fake pictures while I was putting this together

  8. #58
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    Christ, I'll have to read this tomorrow but bballad. I am not ignoring the first hand accounts I read them for what they are, no one say anyone pull a trigger. You are just as likely to jump to a dark conclusion as I am a positive one. I'll read all the new comments after my own version of "satallite office" and a good sleep.

    -peace
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  9. #59
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    Cyber1d,

    A sniper does not reveal himself or his location, hence if the ambulances were being shot at by snipers, They would have no clue where they were getting shot from,
    Now you are in my territory................in Iraq I would use the lite 50 or a modded M-16 (moly coated ammo.drive a tack at 600), so we ar talking Browning .50 cal or .223/5.56mm? I would not expect to see .308Win (7.62x52NATO) rounds.

    If ambulances have been shot at, there must be ballistic evidence? the 7.62x33 (?) is a quite different round?

    OK I know of at least one person on this forum, whose unit used foreign stuff to hide the evidence..we did as well...........but this is NOW, not THEN......????


    Yes, you would not see me that is the way it works, but I am sure that forensics will show AK47 rounds, not pro sniper stuff.

    Cheers

  10. #60
    *yawn*

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