View Poll Results: What did you think of JK's speech?

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  • *****ing great I want to have sex with him!!!!

    2 20.00%
  • It was good.

    3 30.00%
  • It was lame.

    1 10.00%
  • It was utterly pathetic.

    4 40.00%
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  1. #11
    AO Antique pwaring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Originally posted here by pooh sun tzu
    Am I one of the few people here that does not pirate a single OS, Game, software, or music? From the sound of the forums and the IRC channels, a plethora of AO members pirate like there is no tomorrow. What happened to ethics people?
    I can honestly say that I have never pirated a single game (which is probably the easiest software to get hold of) and the only music I have downloaded consists of singles that I can no longer find in the shops. If the iTunes music store was available in the UK or the record companies didn't charge so much, I'd quite happily buy those songs legitimately too. However, at the moment WinMX is the only way I can get hold of them. Seeing as the record companies don't sell these singles any more (or at best make them damn difficult to find, or offer them in the US only and forget about the rest of the world), they're not losing any money by me downloading them so I don't see what their problem is.

    As for ethics, they are on an individual basis. You might think it's unethical to pirate software, other people obviously don't.
    Paul Waring - Web site design and development.

  2. #12
    I understand and applaud your strength. I agree with your reasonings on the unavaliable songs as well.

    other people obviously don't.
    Theft to me is wrong. In any shape, form, word, or ideal, is wrong. If one does not own it, then honor that and do not steal it. Then again, that is my opinion and we are each entitled to our own so do not think I would force my belief system upon others, but I can not honor those who break such basic-human standards, and if I can not honor them I can not trust them with that which I own as well, lest they steal from me too. I guess this was a mini-rant + surprise to see merely that many people here do that.

    Ah well.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Hey Hey,

    To play devil's advocate, I don't think I know a single person who hasn't pirated some form of software. I have a lot of legal software (XP, Visual Studio, Visio, MS Office). If you have 1 copy of XP and install it on your two home computers... you've just pirated it.... very few people can say they haven't doen that... Just last week, I went and downloaded a Windows 98 ISO... but the question is do you consider it pirating? We went to install Win98 on an old machine we picked up and grabbed our CD case.... the case was empty, so we grabbed an ISO off the net and installed it....Is that pirating? I illegally downloaded an ISO that isn't freely available, yet I do have a license for the software.

    As far as music... I do have a lot of music, however if I like a band... I will buy their CD to support them, if they are an up and coming band I will also buy their CD... However if my gf wants 1 song of the new Christina or Britney album, there's no way in hell I'm going to pay $20+ for that single song...

    As far as games, the majority of my games are legit... I either play on my PS2 (which isn't modded, so all the games are legal) or I play NFSU; SOF; Motocross Mania (Cheap knockoff of the real one); Halflife; Duke 3D; Counterstrike... All legit games... However I do have a few pirated games... but they are older games, that you can't find on the shelves of stores.. If i find them in a bargain bin somewhre, then I buy them... however a lot of the time they are difficult to find.

    What it comes down to is not ethics, but common sense and reason. I consider myself to be a fairly reasonable person. However my definition of reason doesn't include paying $100+ for a piece of software; or $15+ for a music CD. If you market your product under those price ranges, I will buy it.... if you choose to be greedy.. I say F@#$ You! If many large pieces of software can be developed for free, then you can at least decently price your software....

    I think my 1st sem. programming prof put it best. We had to get software and he said, "Go out and "buy" it. We all know no one in this room will really pay for this software, I didn't when I was a student. If the company doesn't offer a student pricing scheme, then pirate the software. You're a lowly student who can't afford that kind of money, yet requires the software... however when you stop being a student, that's when you should go buy the software" It's sound advice and it's words I live by.... We require VMWare for school, the school attempted to buy a site license to cover all the students, and they refused to sell us one (it's not something they do).... They want full price for each person, so that we can use it in a learning environment. I don't know a single student who has gone out and purchased VMWare legally. We purchased enough copies for the laptops we issue, and luckily as an issuer of the laptops, I got a copy for myself.. because it's great software and I didn't want to pirate it.

    The fact is they make regular software too expensive for the average person to afford. When they smarten up and realize this and make their prices more reasonable... The pirating will drop by massive amounts.

    IT Blog: .:Computer Defense:.
    PnCHd (Pronounced Pinched): Acronym - Point 'n Click Hacked. As in: "That website was pinched" or "The skiddie pinched my computer because I forgot to patch".

  4. #14
    You can't blame theivery on prices being too high.

    If something is too expensive for you, don't purchase it. No matter the excuse behind why you stole something, you still stole it. CD's too expensive? Buy indi. Software too expensive? Go opensource. Don't blame coorporations and pricey items on your actions when alternatives exist.

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Originally posted here by pooh sun tzu
    You can't blame theivery on prices being too high.

    If something is too expensive for you, don't purchase it. No matter the excuse behind why you stole something, you still stole it. CD's too expensive? Buy indi. Software too expensive? Go opensource. Don't blame coorporations and pricey items on your actions when alternatives exist.
    You can blame it on high prices. It's like the man who steals a loaf of bread to feed his starving family because he can't afford to buy it. He still stole because of high prices... his motives may be slightly better, but he still stole.

    I'll always blame corporations and pricy items for my actions, because they are those prices are the reason for my actions. If the software was lower priced, I'd be happy to buy it. However $400; $700; $1000 is never justified for a bunch of 1's and 0's. Take away their programmers gourmet chef's, their health spas; their gyms; their big screen TVs. Other professions don't get that, so why should programmers. A Network Admin will work their ass off all day and maybe get a thank you; a programmer will spend their day in the gym and maybe code two lines and get a "you are good.. have more money".... It's all supply and demand. The market is saturated with programmers... half the programming graduates end up in call centers. I say remove the benefits that they get and if they have a problem with it fire them... You'll find an abundance of eager people willing to take over the job. I could see offering perks when there was a shortage of programmers, however now it's just ridiculous. If the company wants to waste money, let them... but don't make up for it by taking more money out of my pocket because I'll just continue to pirate your software and not give you anything.

    Like I said, when I graduate I'll stop taking software... but until that happens, if they don't want to give special favours to students, I'll steal their software.

    IT Blog: .:Computer Defense:.
    PnCHd (Pronounced Pinched): Acronym - Point 'n Click Hacked. As in: "That website was pinched" or "The skiddie pinched my computer because I forgot to patch".

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Have we forgotten about the SODDI (some other dude did it) defense? Very straightforward. You get a subpoena from the RIAA. Quickly download a trojan and install it on your own machine and mock up the logs to make it look like other people (from random IPs you pick, preferably to anonymous proxies or something) accessed your computer and downloaded those files without your knowledge or consent. Now nobody can actually verify whether or not YOU downloaded those files.

    This has happened in several recent cases I believe. If I find some, I'll link to them.
    Is there a sum of an inifinite geometric series? Well, that all depends on what you consider a negligible amount.

  7. #17
    Like I said, when I graduate I'll stop taking software..
    That's depressing to read... so utterly depressing.

    Ever hear of the phrase "Do without"? And don't tell me that what you do CAN'T be done with other things. Then is an open source alternative to just about anything out there.

    I mean, come on, you are admitting openly that you are a thief. That you steal, and that you blame it on companies rather than your ability to bite the bullet and do without. How low is that? Forget that question, don't answer it. I'm sure the answer will only be more depressing to read.

    edit: You know what, I'm done. I'm not here to change people's way of life, nor do I have any authority to question why people do what they do. I apologize if I came off rude, overbearing, or anything else and will drop it right here and now. But know that I will not respect someone who steals anything for any reason. When the times comes and software begins to get monitored, I will sit comfortably behind legalities.

  8. #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Here's a possible solution:

    1. Dont use/accept and or share pirated or illegal items. Make sure you have a legal right over it.
    2. Dont use pirated O.S. It is the end-users responsibility to make sure that the OS is certified and that it comes from an authorized source.
    3. Always have time for news regarding new laws that concerns e-commerce and the internet.

    Remember the old saying that prevention is better than cure.

    I hope it helps... regards to all of you..
    If your curious, your probably interested.

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    I agree with your sentiments pooh, and I personally don't have anything pirated. I haven't bought an OS since Win98SE (Well, I bought RH 6.2 in the box, but that was paying for packaging and such), nor have I used a non-free OS since at home. I don't have any pirated media, I buy everything or do without.

    An interesting tidbit, recently a Canadian supreme court judge ruled that ISPs would not have to violate their privacy promises and hand over the names of 79 alleged pirates He took the stance that since the CRIA (Canadian arm of the RIAA basically) could not provide the court with satisfactory non-hearsay evidence as to whom was purportedly committing the crimes, they could not violate the privacy of the individual. The idea here being that you have to prove a crime was committed, and by whom, and since they cannot provide satisfactory evidence to which hosts committed these crimes, they couldn't reliably override the privacy considerations. Interesting ruling, and I have a feeling nothing changed since then. All it really means is that they are going to have to come up with better evidence, although the judge did seem rather critical of the other stuff that was presented. You can read about it at: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ational/Canada
    Chris Shepherd
    The Nelson-Shepherd cutoff: The point at which you realise someone is an idiot while trying to help them.
    \"Well as far as the spelling, I speak fluently both your native languages. Do you even can try spell mine ?\" -- Failed Insult
    Is your whole family retarded, or did they just catch it from you?

  10. #20
    Senior Member cheesegoduk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Yes I have pirated software in the past in order to help me with my school work in the past and you know what? I couldn't give a damn about all these "Holyer than thou" people who say "Piracy is wrong no matter what" Well I'm sorry but at the time the way I saw it, It was that or I fail my school work.

    The idea that open source software could have been used as an alturnative is garbage. Again at the time I was to young and didn't have a clue what OSS was, and I wouldn't have bothered to take the time to relearn how to do something I already knew how to do, what with deadlines and all, nor would I have been bothered to waste my time fixing problems that might arise from compatibity.

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