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Thread: Longhorn - A review into the future of computing

  1. #31
    AO BOFH: Luser Abuser BModeratorFH gore's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by pooh sun tzu
    Well? What can it not do?
    Run on less than 256 MBs of RAM for a start.


    And does ping have a GUI now?

    I also agree that this "HOLY **** IT NEEDS WHAT TO RUN???" **** is old. People probably thought the same thing about DOS at first.

    But of course I'm not letting this go without poking fun.

    It's good to see Windows is starting to get the same features XFree86 has had for 3 years or so (Putting the mouse over a picture and getting a little preview and so on)

    Blah....I just looked and seen the giant ass "My way is better" war you guys have going on. Count me out of that little arguement, I'll make fun of both ways because I don't give a **** if someone gets RSI using the mouse or not, I do it MY way, which is BOTH.

    I start out cracking a joke on RAM requirements for a Windows GUI, and now I'm posting this part so you all know I only read the first page and didn't know about the BASHing you were having.

    In the defence of Windows (Not Microsoft, I don't like them, but Windows is OK) Why buy a fast top of the line machine if you're going to play pong and NetHack? Why not actually make it worth the $5,000.00 you spent on it and let it do what it was made to do?

    Quit bitching about resources, they drop in price every 6 months anyway. If you don't like it, then:

    http://www.slackware.org

    Take your pick, decide what YOU like, and what fits YOU, and use it.

    ...And now for a joke I just thought up about Windows LongWait:

    The price will probably be about a dollar for every meg of RAM you need
    Kill the lights, let the candles burn behind the pumpkins’ mischievous grins, and let the skeletons dance. For one thing is certain, The Misfits have returned and once again everyday is Halloween.The Misfits FreeBSD
    Cannibal Holocaust
    SuSE Linux
    Slackware Linux

  2. #32
    Blah....I just looked and seen the giant ass "My way is better" war you guys have going on. Count me out of that little arguement, I'll make fun of both ways because I don't give a **** if someone gets RSI using the mouse or not, I do it MY way, which is BOTH
    Oh don't get me wrong gore. I support both the gui and cli. But, like OS bashing, I am tired of people bashing one or the other without understanding that both can do the exact same things.

    I use cli in Linux a ton. I use gui only in windows. I'm a zealot neither way, just tired of seeing the stereotypes.

  3. #33
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    Hey Hey,

    Pooh and I had our AIM conversation, so I figured I'd add this.

    Pooh is a very hard headed person, I'll give him that... much in the same way that I am.... and we definately clashed... hard. Anyways the result of the "peaceful" portion of the conversation was that GUI can be almost as fast as CLI, however it requires custom scripting/programming or third party applications.... (Pooh can disagree.. but that's how I felt it was best described). After that talks "broke down" over the subject of computer licensing and restricting who can and can't use a PC.... as well as the necessity of the GUI and the damage it has done to society... Let's just say this portion didn't go well at all. However you now have the "conclusion" if you will.

    Peace,
    HT
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  4. #34
    third party applications
    You are telling me awk, grep, ping, whois, vi, and the rest of the examples you listed are not 3rd party programs of the Linux kernel?

    You use the tools that work, 3rd party or not, because the job has to be done and has to be done right. By simply using the programs that work and not complaining about current ones that don't work (the strings command, anyone), the OS is understood better and the job is accomplished sooner.

    That applies for gui or command line. Which brings me back to my primary point of the entire topic we have been discussing here.

    IT isn't about which is better. It is about both being able to do the exact same thing, and finding the proper tools in both enviroments to get the job done properly.

  5. #35
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    Originally posted here by pooh sun tzu
    You are telling me awk, grep, ping, whois, vi, and the rest of the examples you listed are not 3rd party programs of the Linux kernel?

    You use the tools that work, 3rd party or not, because the job has to be done and has to be done right. By simply using the programs that work and not complaining about current ones that don't work (the strings command, anyone), the OS is understood better and the job is accomplished sooner.

    That applies for gui or command line. Which brings me back to my primary point of the entire topic we have been discussing here.

    IT isn't about which is better. It is about both being able to do the exact same thing, and finding the proper tools in both enviroments to get the job done properly.
    Actually I'm not sure how Linux came into this... I was talking CLI.. regardless of OS... I've never once mentioned Linux.. here or in our AIM convo.... however you have several times now.. You seem to think that Windows is only powerful in the GUI and that Linux is only powerful in the CLI and you are sadly mistaken on both counts. I also never said that I was talking about those applications.... although by third-party I was refering to not distributed with the OS.. not completely correct but the easiest way to say it. Anyways we spoke originally regarding ftp and ipconfig... my scripting was regarding awk, grep, etc.... since for a while you were very adament that you should script it... before changing over to UltraEdit... Then again you think that awk and grep are nothing more than notepad...

    I have lot of respect for you and your intelligence pooh, however your "my way or the highway" attitude is getting a little old.. and trust me, I'm not the only person who has noticed this.

    Peace,
    HT
    IT Blog: .:Computer Defense:.
    PnCHd (Pronounced Pinched): Acronym - Point 'n Click Hacked. As in: "That website was pinched" or "The skiddie pinched my computer because I forgot to patch".

  6. #36
    Actually I'm not sure how Linux came into this... I was talking CLI.. regardless of OS... I've never once mentioned Linux..
    Mentioning vi, grep, awk and other nix command tools doesn't count?

    You seem to think that Windows is only powerful in the GUI and that Linux is only powerful in the CLI and you are sadly mistaken on both counts.
    This is only partially correct. Linux does not have the same GUI power as windows, and windows does not have the same cli power as Linux. If you honestly can not see that, then it is you who are mistaken. As in Windows I can control every aspect and preform every operation in GUI, and in Linux I can control every aspect and preform every operation in the cli. The robustness of the windows gui ability to configure the OS at it's core is identical to the robustness the linux cli has in the nix enviroment.

    Anyone who has used both equally will understand that.

    I also never said that I was talking about those applications.... although by third-party I was refering to not distributed with the OS..
    Gentoo does not come with whois, telnet, traceroute, and a few other essential linux commands because of it's foundation values of building from the ground up. Every aspect of linux but the linux kernel is 3rd party.

    Then again you think that awk and grep are nothing more than notepad...
    If a rose preforms the same function as a lily, then what does the name matter? If awk is a text injection/replacement tool, does notepad and ultra edit -not- have the exact same functions, but in gui? If grep is a string searching utility with formatting options, is that no different than the windows search or any other 3rd party windows filesystem search program?

    Not at all. There can be two paths to accomplish the same goal, and we musn't force a convergence where there is no need for one.

    I have lot of respect for you and your intelligence pooh, however your my way or the hiway attitude is getting a little old.. and trust me, I'm not the only person who has noticed this.
    You are upset because I stood up to you in AIM. Most people here understand that I do not often even come on the forums. I do not often post or comment. I post sparringly and speak sparringly, on topics I feel I know rock solid. That which I do not know, I ask. That which I have learned through forged experience any many years of trial and error, schooling and hands-on experience....I will defend. There is no need to feel so repulsed by my words meant to defend that which I have learned first hand. Instead, try as the majority of AO users here do... and stop talking long enough to merely listen.

    New ideas spring new wisdom. Old experiences can be taught. Stereotypes can be broken and new paths can be plotted. However, if the information is there, and the history of testing and learning is there... what good is it if the person who challenges that information refuses to do nothing more than wait for his turn to speak?

    You must do more than wait. You must listen.

    Instead of saying "no it can't", say instead "Show me how I can". Instead of bickering and arguing (over who killed who), let us both be able to gain from this.

  7. #37
    Macht Nicht Aus moxnix's Avatar
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    New ideas spring new wisdom. Old experiences can be taught. Stereotypes can be broken and new paths can be plotted. However, if the information is there, and the history of testing and learning is there... what good is it if the person who challenges that information refuses to do nothing more than wait for his turn to speak?
    And the greatest information in the world goes unheard if the person you are in commincation with preceives that you are talking down to them.
    Pooh, I have alot of respect for your knowledge, but I think your people skills are lacking sevearely.
    \"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Champagne in one hand - strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!\"
    Author Unknown

  8. #38
    but I think your people skills are lacking sevearely.
    Now I can agree with that, and give you greenies for it I don't lack in the area of teaching kindly or fairly. I lack in the area of being patient with anyone who will not listen or learn something infront of them, or let an opprotunity pass them by.

    Just me though, and on this one particular subject where I wish I could show him instead of argue about possibilities, my patience is low, yes.

    Do I know everything? Hardly
    Do I wish to share what I know? Of course.
    Do I have patience for those who are in a 'prove me wrong' game? No

  9. #39
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    Mentioning vi, grep, awk and other nix command tools doesn't count?
    I use them as often on Windows as I do on nix, just because they're ports doesn't mean anything.... I could care less what they were developped for, doesn't make them nix tools in my books.

    The robustness of the windows gui ability to configure the OS at it's core is identical to the robustness the linux cli has in the nix enviroment.
    I hope you are kidding... while it's close, I wouldn't never consider it to be identical.

    Gentoo does not come with whois, telnet, traceroute, and a few other essential linux commands because of it's foundation values of building from the ground up. Every aspect of linux but the linux kernel is 3rd party.
    Again with the linux... I mentioned ftp and ipconfig... I'm pretty sure those are both MS apps... so I would have to go with not being 3rd party.


    If a rose preforms the same function as a lily, then what does the name matter? If awk is a text injection/replacement tool, does notepad and ultra edit -not- have the exact same functions, but in gui? If grep is a string searching utility with formatting options, is that no different than the windows search or any other 3rd party windows filesystem search program?
    Had you compared find to Windows search/ 3rd party filesystem search software... I would have accepted it... but comparing grep to filesystem search software is a little much. It's a good deal more powerful as that. As far as awk compared to notepad.. or even ultra edit.. I'd say if I was stretching maybe... awk is considered to be a programming language..... and has many more features than notepad or ultra edit.

    You are upset because I stood up to you in AIM. Most people here understand that I do not often even come on the forums. I do not often post or comment. I post sparringly and speak sparringly, on topics I feel I know rock solid. That which I do not know, I ask. That which I have learned through forged experience any many years of trial and error, schooling and hands-on experience....I will defend. There is no need to feel so repulsed by my words meant to defend that which I have learned first hand. Instead, try as the majority of AO users here do... and stop talking long enough to merely listen.
    I'm not upset about anything other than your misrepresentation of quality applications. You do not often post or comment and you post sparringly??? Bad person to use that argument with... My posts per day 2.6, your posts per day 3.77... You post a heck of a lot more often than I do. As far as your learning experience, you sound like a old die hard prof who refuses to be proved wrong on something he's held on to for so long... heaven forbid someone younger know something you don't. If you are implying I don't listen, again you are sadly mistake... so be it... it's very clear that you don't hear anything other people say.

    Peace,
    HT

    [Edit]
    Since I just saw this post now

    Just me though, and on this one particular subject where I wish I could show him instead of argue about possibilities, my patience is low, yes.
    Why not argue possibilities.... You can't show someone something, unless they can believe it, which includes arguing (I'd prefer debating) the possibilities.

    Do I know everything? Hardly
    I'm glad to see honesty from you finally
    Do I wish to share what I know? Of course.
    No one is doubting that for a second
    Do I have patience for those who are in a 'prove me wrong' game? No
    It's not a matter of playing a 'prove me wrong' game.. This is how a discussion works... just because you know something doesn't mean it's law. I've never met you so this next statement could be incorrect but I'm assuming you are only human... human's make mistakes, it's part of human nature.

    [/edit]
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  10. #40
    Macht Nicht Aus moxnix's Avatar
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    Thank you, Pooh.

    Well then take it out of the area of an arguement, or even teaching, and consider it to be a matter of opinion.
    Every one has differing opinons on what is better or worse than others. Argueing about them gets no where, while expressing your own can sometimes change another persons mind, it will very seldom be immeadiate.

    An arguement will seldom produce satisfactory results for either party in it. A discussion, on the other hand, will produce an extream amount of positive feedback for both persons envolved.
    Unfortunately, a discussion is very hard to maintian. Most of the time it slips int o an arguement and then gets personal.
    \"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Champagne in one hand - strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!\"
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