Turkish EU Bid
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  1. #1
    Senior Member OverdueSpy's Avatar
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    Turkish EU Bid

    Full Article: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5540071

    ISTANBUL (Reuters) - President Bush said on Tuesday that Turkey belongs in the European Union and that Europe is "not the exclusive club of a single religion" in what amounted to a rejection of French President Jacques Chirac.......

    Bush held up Turkey as an example of a Muslim democracy and said its entry to the EU would be "a crucial advance in relations between the Muslim world and the West, because you are part of both." ......

    Chirac said on Monday that Bush should not comment on Turkey's EU entry hopes as EU affairs were none of his business.

    "If President Bush really said that the way I read it, well, not only did he go too far but he went into a domain which is not his own," Chirac told reporters at the summit.

    "It is like me trying to tell the United States how it should manage its relations with Mexico," he added. ......

    Countries such as Germany, Italy and Britain strongly back Ankara's bid, but Chirac's government has expressed wariness about kicking off a formal process to admit the relatively poor country of 70 million people.
    Ok. Now let me get this straight. Chiraq is more than happy to purchase/accept bribes of oil from Muslim countries, sell legal/illegal arms to Muslim countries, demand to be allowed contract bids for the rebuilding of Iraq, and tell the U.S. how we should or should not have conducted/are conducting military strength in Muslim countries; and yet when it comes down to the wire, Chiraq doesn't want a Muslim country in the EU. Very interesting.
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    Ok. Now let me get this straight. Chiraq is more than happy to purchase/accept bribes of oil from Muslim countries, sell legal/illegal arms to Muslim countries, demand to be allowed contract bids for the rebuilding of Iraq, and tell the U.S. how we should or should not have conducted/are conducting military strength in Muslim countries; and yet when it comes down to the wire, Chiraq doesn't want a Muslim country in the EU. Very interesting.
    Chirac never said he doesn't want a Muslim country in the EU, and he's not opposed to Turkish membership.

    The EU has strict membership rules, and those rules need to be met before any country can enter. Turkey does NOT meet these rules (yet) - human rights is one of the bigger issues. Turkey, according to Chirac, "does have a European vocation, but the rules for its entry to the EU have not yet been met", and "has always been associated with European civilisation and was an important and loyal member of the Atlantic alliance."
    The decision will be made later this year, and whatever is decided then (by the rules) will be law.

    In 2002, Turkey aggressively campaigned for potential member status (backed by the US), which they received.
    The campaigning was never seen before, and highly unlikely: usually, countries don't campaign for membership. They either get in, or they don't, as decided by the rules.

    After the 2002 campaign, Brussels and Ankara signed a formal agreement, stating that there would be no repeat of such campaigning. Agreed was that the rules decide whether Turkey gets to join or not, not a nice campaign. If the conditions are met, Turkey will get to join, plain and simple.
    Bush's comments could be seen as such campaigning, and I think Chirac hit the nail on the head by comparing it to Europe telling the US how to take care of their Mexican relations. Or Europe telling the US that it should make Canada its 51st state, if you want... none of their business, and uncalled for.

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    Senior Member OverdueSpy's Avatar
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    Hey Negative! You are correct that Chirac never verbally stated that he is opposed to Turkish membership. And you are correct in your evaluation of the EU membership rules. And the U.S. should keep their nose out of it. (just a stray thought here) Although urging France to accept Turkey as an EU member can be interpreted as campaining, it can also be interpreted as an attempt to relay a statement concerning the "better good" of the region.

    Back on topic, I was trying to point out the double standard that Chirac is applying here. (Must not have done a good job of pointing that out) Chirac was for a Pro-Saddam government in Iraq, which can be inferred by the adamant anti-American invasion statements issued by Chirac before, during, and after the war. I just don't understand how Chiraq can be Pro-Saddam on one hand and have serious concerns about Turkey joining the EU at the same time. Based upon Chirac's general view of the U.S. endeavor to end Saddam's dictatorship, I would think that he would have gladly accepted Iraq into the EU. This is all my interpretation of events of course, which probably doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Just trying to be thought provoking.
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    I see your point, OverdueSpy

    Chirac (and Germany, Belgium and a dozen other countries) aren't pro-Saddam. The issue that froze the relationship between those countries and the US was the way it was done, not the actual getting-rid-of-Saddam. France never was for a pro-Saddem government...

    But to be honest: Chirac probably doesn't say it out loud, but I bet he doesn't like Turkey in the EU one bit... just like 70% of all Europeans didn't like the recent joining of eastern European countries, 70% of all Europeans won't like Turkey joining.
    It's like - and I freely qoute Chirac here - America welcoming Mexico as a state...

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    AO Guinness Monster MURACU's Avatar
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    Chirac is not applying a double standard. Joining the EU and invading a country are two slighly different things. How are Turkeys, Germanys and Russia refusal to support the USA attack on Iraq any different from Frances? Chirac isnt and wasnt pro-sadam, or at least no more than the US was. Personnaly I think Chirac comes across as nearly as big a fool as Bush does but at least he was willing to get up there and say we dont agree with what you are doing and will not support it. France was just the scapegoat for the bush administration.
    \"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.\"
    \"The reason we are so pleased to find other people\'s secrets is that it distracts public attention from our own.\"
    Oscar Wilde(1854-1900)

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    Senior Member OverdueSpy's Avatar
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    And a mighty fine scapegoat France turned out to be too!

    I never said that other countries refusal to support the USA's invasion of Iraq was different, but at least they are starting to pull their heads out of their hind ends and see that the world will be a better place without Saddam in power.

    Now, this is my opinion, so take it for what it is worth. Chirac was pro-Saddam. Chirac had business ties with Iraq, getting kick backs of oil from Iraq, opposed holding Iraq accountable for the numerous violations of UN Security Council Resoulutions, and constantly opposed the removal of a tyrannical dictator. If that is not the actions of a pro-Saddam supporter, then I do not know what one is.
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    HeadShot Master N1nja Cybr1d's Avatar
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    France is just confused.

    My question is, what specific criteria doesn't Turkey have?

    Here are the members of EU:

    Austria
    Belgium
    Denmark
    Finland
    France
    Germany
    Greece
    Ireland

    Italy
    Luxembourg
    The Netherlands
    Portugal
    Spain
    Sweden
    United Kingdom

    As of MAY 1 2004, there are the new Members:

    Cyprus
    Czech Republic
    Estonia
    Hungary
    Latvia
    Lithuania
    Malta
    Poland
    Slovakia
    Slovenia

    CANDIDATES:

    Bulgaria
    Romania
    Turkey



    What I don't understand is that a "Country" Like Cyprus, with a population of 700,000 can Join the EU but not turkey with 70Mill and a Military availability of 11MILL? Turkey is part of NATO, and I think that it should be part of EU as well. It could be a bridge to unite the Muslim world and the rest of Europe. Turkey has a huge population, but it also has the Economy, although 18% of its population is below poverty line as of 2001. Just 2 years ago it got rid of capital punishment to conform to EU regulations.

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    Look, France is NOT against Turkey joining the EU. The incident was about Bush telling the EU what to do, and Chirac is 100% right: it's none of his business.
    The decision will be made in December, BY THE EU, not by Bush, as Chiraq pointed out.

    These are the requirements:

    1. Stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect
    for and protection of minorities;
    2. The existence of a functioning market economy as well as the capacity to cope with competitive
    pressure and market forces within the Union;
    3. the ability to take on the obligations of membership including adherence to the aims of political, economic & monetory union.

    Number 2 & 3 are no problem for Turkey (although they'll still need to change a lot). The problem lays in number 1, where Turkey is seriously lacking. The Turkish government is doing a lot of efforts to comply with number 1, but right now requirement number 1 is a big no-no for Turkey.

    Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, the Slovak Republic and Slovenia all fulfil the political criteria. The size of the economy doesn't matter, and shouldn't... as long as it works.

    Every year, the Commission has made reports on these countries. None of them were allowed to join before they met the requirements. Also note that the EU supports candidate-countries in every way possible.

    You can find those reportshere.

    Maybe they should allow China into the EU as a bridge between the West and the East...

  9. #9
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    France is not at all confused here.

    The issue is much deeper than that, and doesn't really have anything to do with Iraq or Turkey.
    For years, all the major decisions in the EU have been made by France, backed up by their 'poodle' Germany.
    The reason this happened was that France and Germany between them had a majority on the EU commission, which is where the real power of the EU lies.

    France got a shock in the last EU summit as it suddenly realised it no longer had the power to insist on changes to the constitution (Chiraq outburst number 1 to Tony Blair), and even more importantly was no longer able to dictate who should be the leader of the commission (Chiraq outburst number 2 to Tony Blair), because the newly admitted members of the EU do not share Frances views of how the EU should progress.

    And now we come to the latest outburst, as France realises that letting Turkey into the club will dilute its influence even more (this time directed at Bush) ...

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    Those are all valid points, darkes (I'm surprised no one mentioned them before... can't expect me to bring them up ).

    The point still stands: Turkey doesn't comply to EU-rules (yet), and it's none of Bush's business...

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