July 12th, 2004, 09:40 AM
social acceptability of pirating and hacking
Okay....I'm sure I'm opening myself up to flames and negative points here, but I'm honestly curious so I"m going to ask anyway.
Online, in forums and chat rooms etc...hacking and software piracy are common, you hear about it all the time, people joke about it etc.
My question is for those of you actually out in the computer world, working in an enterprise environment.
How acceptable is it then to make the same off-handed comments about these topics?
I'm wondering if this is a sensitive area for some people because of their job functions or such.
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July 12th, 2004, 09:55 AM
This prolly belongs in Misc. Security Discussions rather than Newbie security discussions..
I'm not sure how willing I am to answer this.... but I want to attempt to. Have I seen software piracy at work? Yes... However, the software pirated is usually used for about 30 seconds, then it's removed. Does this justify it... no, but when you need something done right now sometimes it needs to be done. I could tell other stories, but I'm going to wait and see how others respond and how they open up about their places of employment.
Now on the hacking side of things. I was hired by the Student Technical Support office but at the same time I'd had an interview with Network Services.. the reason I didn't get into NS was that they labelled me a hacker for pointing out a hole in their security. So yes hacking is huge and not something that's romanticized like it is on many forums online. We released a new E Learning Web Portal not long ago. We were going to be supporting the portal and a guy I was working with at the time asked if he could security audit the portal. The response he got was "No.... they know it's full of holes but they're launching it anyways".... So that makes me believe they don't take hacking too seriously (completely opposite of my other experience with them).. I think it depends on the Attitude of the people you are dealing with.
I'm sure people with more experience and better jobs will have more information for you and if I can think of more I'll add it later.
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July 12th, 2004, 10:13 AM
My boss wanted me to install K3B (it's like nero for linux (kde)) so he could rip his DvD's..
I didn't do it and told him if he wants such stuff he'd better take the time to learn how to do it himself !!
Personaly I have no morral problems with copieing..
I think it's a natural move from copieing LP's and CD's to tape (later to CD )
If I like something enough, I'll buy it anyway (for support, books etc..)
I think a lot of the talk about Piracy is FUD !!
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July 12th, 2004, 10:30 AM
Re: social acceptability of pirating and hacking
Originally posted here by Faqt
those of you actually out in the computer world, working in an enterprise environment.
Mr. Spock would never allow that kind of talk, but Dr. Mcoy would more than likely be too drunk to protest.
For real though, I would never limit your posts to anything beyond common sense.
If it is a legitimate Topic, you will receive a great deal of different responses......(the reason for posting).
That is the fun part.
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July 12th, 2004, 10:33 AM
With hacking it's a harsh label to get rid of. [in the society, not out here where we still try to remember what a hacker truly is]
As [indirectly] pointed out by HTRegz it's sometimes better to play dumb and not care. Sure I could have done an audit on my [ex] school's brand new webdomain for some common and less common security issues. But if I did it on my own I could end up like Lamo, and they would get all fired up if I mentioned anything rhyming to 'audit'. With the decreasing trust that people that people have when it comes to security, it's no wonder a server is more likely to be hacked than properly secured [of course large companies aren't quite like so... but you do you think .edu is the favourite skiddie domain?]
Anyway I'd rather not let too many people that I am technically oriented. Whatever I know could be misinterpreted in the minds of peons therefore it's best left up there with my other thoughts.
As for piracy... worksite piracy can cause a company to get shutdown/severly fined. Home piracy is most of the time employed due to lack of funding, and it goes on the lines of "I had no money for this thing, so I wasn't going to buy it". The knowledge of piracy, however, is what causes people that do afford software/movies/music to download rather than buy. I do not recommend illegal software when I am asked for it, music or anything else.
July 12th, 2004, 11:02 AM
I wouldn't either, he is not worthy of *nix. K3B to rip his DVD's - what is the world coming to !!
Originally posted here by the_JinX
My boss wanted me to install K3B (it's like nero for linux (kde)) so he could rip his DvD's..
dvdbackup -M -i /dev/cdroms/cdrom0 -o /home/user/dvd .........
then open a little Wine and an older copy of dvdshrink (some windows based proggies are good) and presto, instant DVD backup to put on your DVD -/+R media, complete with menu's etc etc ... in less than 1/3 the time it takes to rip to avi.... but suppose that doesn't help if he hasn't got a DVD burner
I must admit tho, K3B makes the DVD burning a dream .... now kids do not attempt this at home unless you own that DVD
July 12th, 2004, 11:14 AM
Piracy is a very grey area to me.
On one hand I would never dream of having a pirated version of anything at work other than on my FAST box. (So called because if we ever get audited it will go out the window really fast)
On the other hand I don't object to taking a disk home with me and installing the same product and license at home.
Very often I think companies allow there products to be pirated easily because it makes sense.
E.G macromedia suite is made increasingly popular by people using it for web design. Joe public can't afford the full suite but yet tonnes of web sites are using it.
July 12th, 2004, 02:34 PM
I have similar experiences HT in that I usually grab something that I need really quickly, but never keep. MB02, I have noticed that not only Macromedia, but graphics design products such as Photoshop or 3d Studio Max are being ripped increasingly.
July 12th, 2004, 04:53 PM
Now I am a strange duck when it comes to warez and pirated programs. I have never used or download any. I have most every thing that I can find that is freeware and I have used programs like the 'Cleaner' that has a trial period, but absolutely nothing that is pirated.
Its not that I am really against piracy or warez. If I wanted to download music, I would. Its just that my wife has an extensive CD collection ( about 500-700 CD's) and if I want to listen to some thing I just get what I want from her collection.
Like HT, if I needed a program right away, and it was avalible as warez, I would get it and use it. But, I have never needed one that I couldn't find some thing for free or with a trial period to use instead. Unlike HT, I would probably keep it once I had it......but that would be strictly for home use also.
I have seen quite a few small to mid sized companies that buy a program with a singel licence and use it on multiple machines. I would not turn them in, but if I were the owner of one of these companies, I would be very worried about disgruntaled employees turning me in.
As for hacking/cracking, I would be suspicious of any one who lables them selfs as such. They would be automatically considered skiddies by me untill they proved themselves other wise (if they even got the chance).
If some one came to me and told me they scanned my network and found some hole, I would be very interested in what they found and if they knew how to secure it. I would also want to know how and what they used to find this hole. But then, it would be my personal LAN and I would not have to be worrying about losing my job, because my boss could get pissed about me not doing my job.
I guess it is a matter of perspective.
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July 12th, 2004, 07:43 PM
humm.. do i need to be honest here?
i confess. I had used "non valid" copies of softwares on several ocasions.
- Sometimes, just because i need that just one function that just one software need (like when ive received a visio file and a didnt have visio do convert it to other stuff)
- Other ocasions i need to solve a f... problem and ive got a lot of tools on a "gray" way. And I did it on companies (big ones) just to fix the problem.
- and other times just because i was too lazzy to go thru purchasing structure and buy it.
Sometime in past, i realized that i was a dumbass. And i quite that.
If someone thinks that this or that software costs too much, just dont use it. But NEVER, NEVER steal other' work. Piracy is that: one guy work like a dog, and another get the finished good for free.
Now im the guy that hunt those pirates down.
And never forgive: one minute of piracy = one year
Yeap, (besided i grow up), my role has changed on market.
But from time to time......
(please do no try this at home. piracy can be dangerous for your wallet)
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