VbFavre69's Bible Part I

[The Grunt]

He wrote a decent tutorial, you people are stupid for negging him for this stuff.... He AGREES with pooh in a post you guys neg him... WTF? Someone needs a swift kick in the ass... This is even stupider than leprican getting negged for saying Low level format a hard drive, when he actully KNEW what he was talking about and some "others" didn't.

[MURACU]

just took a quick run throught the tutorial. the information is good and in most cases farily clear. The biggest problem I would have is the way it is presented. It doesnt take much to turn a usefull tutorial into something that is unreadable and vice versa. A good example is the disclaimer
quote:
<-::->Disclaimer<-::->
This tutorial is intended for educational purposes it does contain text and information that can be used for malicious purposes therefore I the author will not be held responsible for any weird and instinctive acts you might do once you have read this tutorial and it will be the sole responsibility of the user of this tutorial. If you do not agree with this please do not read forward and delete this tutorial. I disclaim everything I can by law.
end quote:

IMHO if you are going to put a disclamier it should be at least serious. As presented here it gave me the impression that I was about to read just another copy paste tutorial wrote by a 14 year old script kiddie. Also in my experiance writting this is the software i use and you can find the crack here is a sure fire way to get negged.
Having said that I feel the information presented deserves grennies.

[pooh sun tzu]

who negged him!!!

I negged him. Here is why:

1. Sure, his tutorial is decent. But it is nothing more than memories of old-school crackers that would write tutorials on the latest AIM booters. This wasn't the deciding factor, or the primary reason for me negging him. Simply a major annoyance and side thought of "I didn't realise I accidentally went to the 2600 IRC channel in #h4x0Rz". This is why I didn't neg the parent post, but a post of his later on, because the tutorial (even if presented in a script kiddy manner) was valid and held semi-useful information.

2. Even after we agreed that normal exploit discussion groups (Security focus, bug traq, phrak) do not use disclaimers because of the obvious (people will use information regardless of whether you say it isn't your fault), he went on with it still about how it would 'protect him'. If information is going to get you into trouble by posting it somewhere, then obviously it's being posted to the wrong place. I don't think his tutorial would get anyone in trouble, as it's common knowledge, and thus there is no need for a 'make it feel more illegal and more underground' disclaimer. This, too, was not the primary reason, but yet again another annoyance.

3. His past posts have been nothing but "oh looki what I can hack, and how!". This was my final straw with him. If you find exploits or security holes, that's great. Don't be an ass and post them for other people to use just for your moment of fame. Inform the company about the exploitation and handle it that way. This minimizes damages to the company, minimizes the chance of the company coming after you, and actually earns a lowly cracker some respect from people who have moved beyond the 'underground' phase. This was the primary reason, and the final straw in which 1 and 2 were the stepping stones.

As presented here it gave me the impression that I was about to read just another copy paste tutorial wrote by a 14 year old script kiddie.

Bingo.

There are hackers, and there are crackers. There are people who explore the net for curiosity, and people who crack the net for fame. There are people who code and contribute to the community, and there are those who don't have the faintest idea how to give back to the community that taught them. And no, I'm not a white-hat. But I can smell the difference between someone cracking for fame and 'recognition' versus helping to improve the community.

[i2c]

I had a quick read of the tutorial and its obvious that vbfavre69 has put a great deal of effort into it, ok so the disclaimer is pretty crappy...he probably didnt take legal advice on it? does anyone else when they write this stuff? I bet very very few do....Any decent legal team will probably rip any disclaimer that an unqualifed person straight apart...

Heres what I think is the problem with tutorials and AO, this my be it somewhat controvesal, but there my opinions. Newbies come along and most newbies are inundated with negs, maybe they shouldnt be negged for there first x number of posts, say 5? this would give them a chance to see what AO is about. Maybe this would leave AO with more technical people that are often scared off out right because there negged and flamed, instead of the people that come and ask dull and un exciting questions like "how do i get MSN working from behind a firewall?" or "whats the best firewall/ AV?"

I think negging on tutorials that arent plagerised and contain relativly correct content is wrong..people put a lot of effort in for no reward, just because they want to contribute to the community, negging people only annoys people and leads to negative attitudes.

Ive only been here a relativly short time, so can't really comment on the total effectivness of the AP system, but they do seem to sometimes punish genuine users, that are here for good reasons.

who no's......

i2c

[The Grunt]

The problem lies not with the AP system, it's the fact that if pooh or any other senior with 11 dots negs someone, the person gets hit HARD. It take a LOT of good posts to recover from being negged by one of them. When mem let his account go, the dude who had it negged me and it was 43 points... that is a lot, considering that is almost half of a green dot. If seniors could choose how much they hit, things would be a lot better. Then rather than negging vbfavre with 30 points or w/e pooh ended up hitting with, pooh could hit him with 5 or 10 or 15 and not do as much damage, but still get his point through. I think right now that the seniors are almost too powerful. If two of them get together on a person, they can easily kill him in 2 or 3 posts.

[AngelicKnight]

Remember the guidelines of the AP system.

Go back and reread the official rules on this -- you don't neg someone for disagreeing with them, with the exception being only if you STRONGLY disagree with them. That much is somewhat subjective. Pooh, it sounds like perhaps you were a little loose with the negging, unless you disagreed with him that severely? If so, then we really don't have any grounds to argue your assignment.

In any case, I checked out this thread because of it's "extremely positive" designation (meaning something really worth reading is likely here). So, that being the case, there should be enough greens by now to balance things out?

[HTRegz]

Hey Hey,

Who has actually read this? While it has a few good points it is mostly a load of crap that belongs with the text files of the early 90s. The disclaimer has already been discussed I will ignore it and concentrate on some of the other points listed.

1. Use Proxies to Remain Anonymous.

- This has been argued many times on AO and there are many people that disagree with that point.

2. Pointing people towards software and a crack for it.

- Would a decent tutorial really tell you to pirate software?

3. Claiming you find a vulnerable service with a port scanner?

- Maybe a vuln scanner, but not a port scanner. It's rather easy for me to change the banner on almost any service to confuse you.

4. Talk of hacking and downloading exploits?

- Telling people to go download an exploit and use it to 'hack' a website definately isn't legit.

5. Create a fake hotmail page to send people to or use a key logger to gather their passwords?

- I don't know what to say about this... Except it's ridiculous.

6. Won't explain SSH cuz it's simpler than Telnet

- How is it simpler? In it's use? You accept a key and then there's no difference. In it's underlying operation? because then you've got encryption going on and it's definately not simpler telnet

7. Hacking Tutorial requires a password cracker

- When should you ever require a password cracker against someone elses website?

8. nmap is simple and clear

- There have been tutorials written on nmap because of the number of options and flags it has. How does this make it simple and clear if it requires a tutorial to explain it all.

9. Proxies make it harder to track online activity.

- This relates to number 1, but also.. why should anyone want to track your online activities unless you're breaking the law. This reminds me of old hacker movies where they use proxies and it looks like a phone trace through all these points.

10. Speaking of Using Wingates.

- This is definately early 90s.... how many people even know what wingates are these days?

11. Talk of IRC and spoofing.

- The spoofing ends up being vhosts... I'm pretty sure that's not spoofing.. in fact I know that's not spoofing...

12. Headers Reveal both IE 6 and Mozilla 4.0

- Not quite... It's using IE.... which should have been obvious since it was on his screen at the time.

13. Claims there's a lame way and an elite way to do DDoS attacks.

- Elite is used??? and there's an elite DDoS attack? Man am I behind the times... or else we've time warped back 10 years.

14. NetBIOS Hacking?

- This is like straight out of the old 90s texts....

15. Having fun with the Messenger service.

- You wanna talk about lame and skiddish ways? This one takes the cake... He just keeps loosing more and more credibility.

16. Hacking sendmail?

- I didn't know that connecting and modifying the sender was considered hacking this days instead of 'spoofing' the address.... something I could do in outlook by typing a different address if I wanted to..

I'm skimmed most of the code parts because I'm assuming they're a little more acurate but all in all... this was a pretty shitty tutorial. It read like some skiddies claim to fame trying to copy the texts that many of us read as little kids 10-15 years ago.

Peace,
HT

[AngelicKnight]

^^ I'd say that's a prime example of strongly disagreeing.

I just downloaded the zip myself and am about to give it a good read...

[keezel]

Originally posted here by The Grunt
The problem lies not with the AP system, it's the fact that if pooh or any other senior with 11 dots negs someone, the person gets hit HARD. It take a LOT of good posts to recover from being negged by one of them. When mem let his account go, the dude who had it negged me and it was 43 points... that is a lot, considering that is almost half of a green dot. If seniors could choose how much they hit, things would be a lot better. Then rather than negging vbfavre with 30 points or w/e pooh ended up hitting with, pooh could hit him with 5 or 10 or 15 and not do as much damage, but still get his point through. I think right now that the seniors are almost too powerful. If two of them get together on a person, they can easily kill him in 2 or 3 posts.

Not really. It takes like -150 APs before you get banned. A senior member with 11 green dots dishes out appx 15 negative points if they hit someone in a security thread. (This is assuming the member has barely earned the last "dot"). If it's in another forum, it's significantly less. Considering that there's almost always a battle over trolls (no matter how stupid) - it would take quite a few significantly powerful senior members to ban the person as there are other seniors that almost always green n00bs that are about to get banned. Even if we were to assume that nobody helps the person out...it would take several of the *most* powerful members on the site to ban the person with APs. It works out to create a decent balance and someone still has to screw up pretty badly to get banned.

[vbfavre69]

ok personally i donot give a **** HOW YOU LIKE MY DISCLAIMER.. its a fricking **** i just threw in to be safe.... why do youll people fuss about such useless ****.. if this kind of argument goes on this forum will be no more than kiddie grounds like zone-h where people get flamed for the stupidest reasons.

second this tutorial was meant to help people out if you like it use it if you dont well then sue me.. and go right a better one your self.. thats all i have to say on this plain and simple.. this tutorial was released months ago and was well appreciated by lot of communities i finally decided to post it here so read it if youll like but stop fussing over **** like how my diclaimer was written
and by the way someone mentioned something about the disclaimer being written by a 15 year old.. well thatd be pretty accurate considering im 16.. well 17 now but at the time of this tutorial 16...