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  1. #1
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    prayer

    Atheist Invocation Sparks Outrage

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,127614,00.html

    TAMPA — Across America, many local government meetings begin with public prayers but a Tampa city council meeting recently started out with members leaving because of the invocation.

    Atheist Michael Harvey (search ) was about to give the invocation at a Tampa City Council meeting when some members became angry. A debate continued for nearly 30 minutes until three members walked out.

    Mary Alvarez left saying she shouldn't have to "listen to an atheist sit here and tell me what I should or should not believe in."

    Tampa atheists were granted permission to speak during the invocation after scolding the council for praying to "invisible men in the sky."

    Harvey doesn't believe in God so praying for civic wisdom for public servants, the whole idea behind any invocation, was impossible.

    "All I was trying to get across was that if they're going to be guided by something let them be guided by things we know work... reason... logic, science," Harvey said.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

    it's my contention that Harvey was giving his interpretation of what god is to him. if you ask anyone what god is "to them" they will give you an answer. "to me? well to me it means..."

    If the us gov were to adopt an official meaning to the word god, like "whatever higher force guides you" and go on to incude such things as any ideal, philosophy, religious belief etc. it would avoid just so many problems. the christians would be refering to christ the muslims to allah athiests to their high consiousness and so on.

    does this seem foolish? if it does t/y for telling me and if not id like to start a mailing compaign to our reps.

    i just think if we had an official meaning all would be included and all could STFU already! we've got more important things to fight about. "in god we trust"
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

  2. #2
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    key word = situational etiquette
    West of House
    You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
    There is a small mailbox here.

  3. #3
    It just kills me the contradictions. The atheist is in essence "preaching" in a non-preaching setting, and that's what I have a problem with. A city council meeting is not the place to try and convince people there is no God. In all fairness, neither is it the place to try and prove there is a God. Opening with a respectful prayer is one thing, preaching for or against is quite another.

    I don't think there should be an official definition, as we have that whole separation of church and state thing. Though, I see what you're getting at. I don't think it would help matters though. People need to just stop whining, and giving them a definition won't fix it, it'll just alter what they're whining about a little.

  4. #4
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    I agree with RoadClosed. Even they are atheists, i dont think that invocation can cause any hurt to them. So why dont just wait?

    I think we should live with the diferences. And show respect about other "rituals".

    Its only that. A ritual. It wont cause any harm just waiting quiet.
    Meu sítio

    FORMAT C: Yes ...Yes??? ...Nooooo!!! ^C ^C ^C ^C ^C
    If I die before I sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to encrypt.
    If I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to brake.

  5. #5
    Exactly, plus it's historical tradition.

  6. #6
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    So why dont just wait?
    I have a loose theory, it involves forces outside the scripted event. I used script because in most cases I believe that the event, in this case prayer, has nothing to do with the anger. It's the person they are attacking or some selfish motivation outside the arena in which they play. And these people script our perception and use us. In reality there is no reason to get all worked up because someone says "thank you god for being kind to us." WTF? In those cases the people on the other side are selfish and overly righteous in their own cause. As the profit Jay put it once....

    "**** them up their stupid asses."
    West of House
    You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
    There is a small mailbox here.

  7. #7
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    ok...so much for a mailing. it's just im so sick and tired of hearing about it i wish there was something i could do. doing is good!
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

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