Freewill vs Pre-destination
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Thread: Freewill vs Pre-destination

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    Freewill vs Pre-destination

    I would like to ask a question with regards to free-will and pre-destination. I have to admit, I lean to ward the pre-destination part, mean how else can "people see into the future" if it isnt happening already?! is tomorrow already happening today and just waiting for my consciousness to catch up or is it truly that i can choose a different destiny? Hey didnt Nostradamus make a whole lot of predictions?! Didnt Edgar Casey also?! Hey to all the Egyptologists out there ....

    In the end, could these 2 perhaps just be opposite and equal reactions that need to exist so that they cancel each other out and hence create balance?!
    HO$H Pagamisa. Pro Amour Ludi....

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    my head hurts ........ to much to think about this is

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    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
    Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
    According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
    In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
    Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
    Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
    That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
    In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will
    http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/k...1&byte=5182024[quote]
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

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    [QUOTE] Originally posted here by rcgreen
    http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/k...1&byte=5182024how do you reconcile this with consciousness that believes in free-will rcgreen, thanks for the reply btw, am i not to believe, that in your terms adam and eve chose to eat the apple, or was it designed for them to eat the apple?! or is this a different question?!
    HO$H Pagamisa. Pro Amour Ludi....

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    They call me the Hunted foxyloxley's Avatar
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    adam and eve chose to eat the apple
    I thought that Eve was tempted by the serpent ...................
    And then she coerced Adam into joining her.





    Anyway; Eve was the first computer operator: She used to play with Adam's Wang ........
    And; as usual, there's an Apple in the background...............
    55 - I'm fiftyfeckinfive and STILL no wiser,
    OLDER yes
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    come and waste the day :P at The Taz Zone

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    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    The debate over free will is one of the oldest and most
    fundamental philosophical questions. Here is Martin Luther's opinion.

    For if you hesitate to believe, or are too proud to acknowledge, that God foreknows and wills all things, not contingently, but necessarily and immutably, how can you believe, trust and rely on His promises? When He makes promises, you ought to be out of doubt that He knows, and can and will perform, what He promises; otherwise, you will be accounting Him neither true nor faithful, which is unbelief, and the height of irreverence, and a denial of the most high God! And how can you be thus sure and certain, unless you know that certainly, infallibly, immutably and necessarily, He knows, wills and will perform what He promises? Not only should we be sure that God wills, and will execute His will, necessarily and immutably; we should glory in the fact, as Paul does in Romans 3:4 - "Let God be true, but every man a liar", and again, "Not that the word of God has failed," and in another place, "The foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, the Lord knoweth them that are His." In Titus 1:2 he says: "Which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began"... If, then, we are taught and believe that we ought to be ignorant of the necessary foreknowledge of God and the necessity of events, Christian faith is utterly destroyed, and the promises of God and the whole gospel fall to the ground completely; for the Christian's chief and only comfort in every adversity lies in knowing that God does not lie, but brings all things to pass immutably, and that His will cannot be resisted, altered or impeded.
    http://www.reformedreader.org/bow.htm

    If you remove God from the discussion, and replace him with impersonal
    forces, the problem still does not go away. Sovereignty, foresight, and
    predestination are merely transferred to some other authority.

    Predestination is an inescapable concept

    It's only a question of who is doing the predestinating.
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

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    Here is my say on this debate, Free will and pre-destination can be compared to DNA and genes of human beings. We all know from sceintific research that most of human traits like physique, nature etc can be pre-determined by looking at his/her DNA fingerprints or genes(whichever) , but then there is also effect of upbringing,enviroment etc. Now all these factors effect a person which can be calculated to predict about him in a given situation.
    But if that person by some insight become aware of this thing scripted behaviour of his, he can use his free will to put an effort into changing his nature and his response to these situations.
    aren't free-will and predestination are like these?
    It\'s all about sense of power.

  8. #8
    I believe both exist paradoxically. It's just a matter of how you perceive time as a whole (theoretically speaking).

    Keep in mind we exist within time. If you believe as I do, God exists outside of time.

    Because God is outside of time, he can see the beginning of time and the end of time at the same time.

    We have the free will to do as we please, but since God already knows what decisions we are going to make from His position outside of time, He knows to plan accordingly -- thus predestination.

    Does that make a lick of sense?

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    Re: Freewill vs Pre-destination

    I am a believer of free will. I guess life would be a lot more boring to me if you had no choice, but you were going to do what you were going to do. The thing that trips me out is, if someone reads your future and say they told you that you were going to be killed on a certain day. Did that fortunetelling lead you to do something that would make you die on that day? If you didnt know what happened in that fortunetelling would you not die on that day? Its a mind trip.

    Originally posted here by S1lv3rW3bSurf3r
    Hey didnt Nostradamus make a whole lot of predictions?!
    Nostradamus made a lot of general predicitions. Then people fit those predicitons to events after they have happened. My problem with him is that none of his followers predict these events before they happened.

    Edit: Hit submit too fast and didnt finish the thought.
    N00b> STFU i r teh 1337 (english: You must be mistaken, good sir or madam. I believe myself to be quite a good player. On an unrelated matter, I also apparently enjoy math.)

  10. #10
    Look at it from a time perspective instead of a control perspective, Jarrod, and you'll understand better where I'm coming from. Let me reword it this way:

    If you could hop in a time machine, go ten years into the future and visit me, then you could find out what decisions I had made (free will) up until that point in the future. Then, you could come back to present day and plan your response to those actions accordingly (predestination). Have you taken away any of my free will? Does it mean my actions are pre-decided by someone other than myself? Nope. It just means you can see ahead by moving back and forth along the time line ahead of me.

    Nostradamus made a lot of general predicitions. Then people fit those predicitons to events
    Yeah, I'm very reserved in my opinion of his "predictions". Some of them are interesting, but there's just too much room for interpretation discrepencies.

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