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Thread: Gay marriage ban passes

  1. #61
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    Angelicknight, the analogy I was trying to make is that being blonde and being homosexual are both genetic patterns it would seem. As are many maladies. Being genetic doesn’t necessarily make it OK it just makes it ‘not really a choice’ Of course a born again (my g/f is born again) might argue that this really isn’t in nature, that men have free will and it is just a trick of satan. to lead us astray. Maybe it is!?! Or maybe its just another rocky path some must walk….i don’t know and its not for me to judge that. I have not walked in their shoes to know what brought them to where they are.


    why did god create the universe?

    if you have an answer for this than there is a cause behind the cause and were right back where we started
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

  2. #62
    HeadShot Master N1nja Cybr1d's Avatar
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    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -Albert Einstein

  3. #63
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    The Universe created god.
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  4. #64
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    I am god.

  5. #65
    Senior Member OverdueSpy's Avatar
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    I find it interesting that so most people can believe in something "man-made", to which there is no substansive proof; and then have difficulty believing in "God-made", because there is no substansive proof.

    For instance: We have many....er.... shall we say discussions about the United States Presidential candidates here on AO.

    Now, most people "believe" that either George Bush or John Kerry or Both are lying about their service during Vietnam; and most people "Believe" that George Bush or John Kerry or Both are telling the truth about their Vietnam service. When in actuality, there is not concrete proof for or against either candidates Vietnam... shall we call them pronouncements. Most of us did not serve with John Kerry or George Bush in Vietnam, so we cannot form an "unbiased" or "unshakable" case to support either candidate, but we still do. And yet people have trouble believing in God, because there is no proof. These same people will say that "we are but a speck in the chaotic cosmos," and think themselves into the "superiority of all we observe" mindset. And these same people have the audicity to call believers "blind to the facts," when their answers cannot explain the unexplainable any better than the believers. Sometimes I am just astounded at mankinds ability to assume pre-eminence, ascendency, and ultimate supremacy over another individual's "conviction of truth." But this statement goes for believers as well as non-believers. When this condition this applies to a believer it's called "foolishness and bigotry." When this condition is applied to non-belivers we call it "questioning," but that is a whole different story.
    The mentally handicaped are persecuted in this great country, and I say rightfully so! These people are NUTS!!!!

  6. #66
    This point was also raised in the only true referance to the universe The hitch hikers guide to the galaxy.
    I really need to read that book...

    why did god create the universe?

    if you have an answer for this than there is a cause behind the cause and were right back where we started
    God created the universe (effect) because of X (cause). X (effect) occurred because of God's thinking (cause). God, by His own nature, is both outside of the time He created and is causeless (the uncaused cause). God (uncaused) --> X reason (effect/cause) --> creation of the universe (effect).

    So you're actually not right where you started. You've reached a break in the cycle.

    Hmm...now solve for X. Heh heh, just kidding. Fortunately we don't need the answer to that one -- doesn't really change anything, for here we are regardless.

    RoadCloased, your statement requires the Universe to have the intellectual capacity for creativity.

    And Spy...You're a frickin' genius.

  7. #67
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    Overdue:

    In your argument what we are believing or not believing in is based on our impression of the trustability of the two individuals you mention. Then you go on to imply that because we trust _our_ unprovable feelings about the trustability of those two individuals we should therefore have no problem trusting in the existence of a supreme being.

    The failure of your logic here is that in doing so you expect me to trust _your_ feelings or the feelings of others about a supreme being. The fact that you chose to believe in the unprovable existence of a supreme being has no bearing on whether I should. However, since we both have our own impressions of the two individuals we can both form "reasonable" impressions of what we believe their level of honesty to be... and they can differ.

    Of course, being logical and knowing that both the individuals are politicians we should automatically restrict our level of trust in either since statistically it can be proven that the vast majority of politicians either lie or lie by omission in most cases.....

    Angelic:

    So you're actually not right where you started. You've reached a break in the cycle.
    Ok.... Your "progression" is making several assumptions that even I can't let go....

    God created the universe (effect) because of X (cause). X (effect) occurred because of God's thinking (cause). God, by His own nature, is both outside of the time He created and is causeless (the uncaused cause). God (uncaused) --> X reason (effect/cause) --> creation of the universe (effect).
    The first assumption, (maybe reasonable to you.... ), is that god created the universe. Proof please.....

    The second is that god thought.... he could only think if he existed... proof please.

    The third, god created time and is outside time and is "causeless", (whatever you mean by that). Proof please....

    You are starting at the wrong point. You are placing your reasonable assumption into the flow of logic and interpolating forwards from there while, at the same time, trying to fuzzy the logic by attributing "qualities" to the assumtion that may or may not exist to allow it to fit your flawed flow of logic.

    How can you, in all seriousness, accept such flaws in your "progression"? That's a serious question... It fascinates the hell out of me how obviously intelligent and thoughtful people can just throw away basic principles in order to justify a belief system......

    [/Edit]
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    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides

  8. #68
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    "And god said, let there be light...."

    I am saying there was light before god. There was substance before god and that substance created god. Thus the Universe created god. More accurately the universe is god, but god didn't tell men to write his story. If that were the case only one religion is correct and the rest are wrong. And men kill to prove who is correct because their teaching leave out ALL others but them. That is one consistancy among religion.
    West of House
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    There is a small mailbox here.

  9. #69
    How can you, in all seriousness, accept such flaws in your "progression"? That's a serious question... It fascinates the hell out of me how obviously intelligent and thoughtful people can just throw away basic principles in order to justify a belief system......
    Didn't we already hit this point? Was your weekend that wild enough to erase some memory?

    Heh heh...I can't pass this one up, it's too fun:

    I'll answer this:

    I am saying there was light before god.
    With this:

    Proof please.....


    Sorry, I just feel mischievous today...

  10. #70
    Senior Member OverdueSpy's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by Tiger Shark
    Overdue:

    In your argument what we are believing or not believing in is based on our impression of the trustability of the two individuals you mention. Then you go on to imply that because we trust _our_ unprovable feelings about the trustability of those two individuals we should therefore have no problem trusting in the existence of a supreme being.

    The failure of your logic here is that in doing so you expect me to trust _your_ feelings or the feelings of others about a supreme being. The fact that you chose to believe in the unprovable existence of a supreme being has no bearing on whether I should. However, since we both have our own impressions of the two individuals we can both form "reasonable" impressions of what we believe their level of honesty to be... and they can differ.

    Of course, being logical and knowing that both the individuals are politicians we should automatically restrict our level of trust in either since statistically it can be proven that the vast majority of politicians either lie or lie by omission in most cases.....
    [/Edit]
    Exactly Tiger! You are so close to understanding all of this, I can almost taste it. Now when you talk about "reasonable", try to remember the famous statements.... by Barnum I think. ....Something like... You can fool All of the people some of the time, and you can Fool Some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool All of the people all of the time.
    The mentally handicaped are persecuted in this great country, and I say rightfully so! These people are NUTS!!!!

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