Lucifer != Satan
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Thread: Lucifer != Satan

  1. #1
    King Tutorial-ankhamun
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    Lucifer != Satan

    I was watching a show on conspiracy theory awhile back, and when one of the speakers referred to Satan as Lucifer I knew he had not done enough biblical research to be worth listening to. The name Lucifer comes from a misunderstanding of Isaiah 14:12:
    Quote:

    KJV:
    How art thou fallen from heaven,
    O Lucifer, son of the morning!
    how art thou cut down to the ground,
    which didst weaken the nations!

    Quote:

    NIV:
    How you have fallen from heaven,
    O morning star, son of the dawn!
    You have been cast down to the earth,
    you who once laid low the nations!


    The Hebrew Bible refers to Heylel Ben-Shachar (yes, I know technically there were no vowels), which means something along the lines of “morning star son of the morning.” Heylel Ben-Shachar is translated to Lucifer (Roman name for the planet Venus, and one of their Gods) by Jerome for the Vulgate and by extension the JKV of the Bible. If one reads Isaiah 14 in it's entirety it appears to be referring to the king of Babylon (my understanding is Tiglath-Pileser III) who was hauty and prideful but was laid low by God. He is even referred to as a man in verse 16:
    Quote:

    KJV:
    They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

    So Lucifer is not the same as Satan. Don't believe everything you read in a book by John Milton. Smile Attached are some more references that might clear things up.

    Some references:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
    http://www.everything2.com/
    http://www.kjvonly.org/doug/notes_on_lucifer.htm

  2. #2
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    I always thought lucifer was satan .. i thought it was his name not that i am interested in anything religious .. but it is a huge misconception then

  3. #3
    er0k
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    yeah, im pretty sure lucifer is the root of luminescence (sP?) somehow, or at least it seems to be

  4. #4
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    Irongeek, im lost on your citations. Could you explain (in simple english -- past was too ellaborate for me :P) what is the difference between them? im interested.
    Meu sítio

    FORMAT C: Yes ...Yes??? ...Nooooo!!! ^C ^C ^C ^C ^C
    If I die before I sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to encrypt.
    If I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to brake.

  5. #5
    King Tutorial-ankhamun
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    er0k : Close, it means light-bearer and is some times translated as Morning Star.

    cacosapo: I'm not sure what you are asking.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    In the winter in the Northern hemisphere, the planet Venus is generally clearly visible, and very bright. Hence the colloquialism "Morning Star"

    The rest is mostly poetic licence, the analogy being Satan's fall from grace and the fall from the heavens of its brightest "star"

    Lucifer is derived from Lux, Lumen (or something like that) which is Latin in Greek it is something like Eileen (girl's name meaning light), in Hindi: Noor, Arabic: Nur.

    It is all semantics and poetic licence............just about every language has a word implying light or luminescence.

    In the old days matches were referred to as "lucifers"...........that could be because of the light they provide, but I suspect it was more likely their sulphur content..........."hellfire and brimstone"

    Remember that the King James I Bible and John Milton (Paradise Lost & Paradise Regained) were roughly contemporary............you are just looking at the semantics of that period in history.



    yes, I know technically there were no vowels
    No, that is not correct. Both hebrew and Arabic (both semitic peoples BTW) have vowels. There are two versions of their languages, the common and the formal ("Koranic Arabic" for example). Vowels do not appear in the body of a word, but as accents or punctiation mark like entries.

    Legal and religious documents would be written in the formal text, as it prevented misinterpretation. The common versions were very context orientated, and things can and are taken out of context

    Satan, Beelzebub, Lucifer, and the great Djall are one and the same.


  7. #7
    Hmm...Don't satanists refer to him as lucifer as well?

  8. #8
    King Tutorial-ankhamun
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    Originally posted here by AngelicKnight
    Hmm...Don't satanists refer to him as lucifer as well?
    What kind of Satanist? Satanist’s of the Lavey tradition might, just to thumb their noses at Christians but really Anton Lavey’s church has very little to do with the Christian concept of Satan. As for the kid who listened to too much metal in the early eighties, he’s just ignorant of the words meaning.

  9. #9
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    im asking about the diference between satan and lucifer. I couldnt understand your explanation.
    I allways think that both are the same "person".
    Meu sítio

    FORMAT C: Yes ...Yes??? ...Nooooo!!! ^C ^C ^C ^C ^C
    If I die before I sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to encrypt.
    If I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to brake.

  10. #10
    King Tutorial-ankhamun
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    Read some of the links I put at the end, as it turns out "Lucifer" is referring to a Babylonian king.

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