A new way for users to hose their systems?

[AxessTerminated]

Though I don't think that free BIOS is needed for an "ethically [pure]" environment, I do believe that it should be open source. There should be alternatives, and when I buy something, I have every right to know everything about it....maybe not the code, but atleast the specs of a mobo or vid card. When I buy spaghetti sauce, the FDA requires that the ingredients are listed...not just for allergy reasons. The FCC should be doing the same with hardware.

A_T

[nihil]

I really cannot see the justification for open source firmware...............how many people on the planet would have the knowledge and equipment to code it? Or would even want to?

All you need to know is what it does, what it lets you do, and how to fix it if it breaks

[Maestr0]

People should have OpenSource whatever they want. Thats the point, people SHOULD HAVE THE CHOICE, instead of being locked into restrictive license agreements, and reduced rights on property you own, so corporations can legislate further control over the computer in your bedroom, telling you what you can, and cannot do with your PC. Would you let car manufacturers do this ****? Is there a secret distributor cap that people should not have the plans to, because they have no business opening the hood of their car? You dont need to justify it. I want it. I would use it, and I sure as **** wouldnt call one of you monkeys to come fix it. (Thats a joke.)

-Maestr0

[nihil]

People should have OpenSource whatever they want.

Well they can, all they have to do is go write it

instead of being locked into restrictive license agreements, and reduced rights on property you own, so corporations can legislate further control over the computer in your bedroom, telling you what you can, and cannot do with your PC

You can always build your own.......................

Would you let car manufacturers do this ****?

They do..............buy a Ford and you get a Ford engine, accessories, embedded processors.............

"caveat emptor"...................let the buyer beware................just make sure you know what you are buying first.

[XTC46]

Would you let car manufacturers do this ****? Is there a secret distributor cap that people should not have the plans to, because they have no business opening the hood of their car?

there is a difference between knowing what si there and being able to fully control it. Alot of these precausions are in place to PROTECT users. People know there is a computer that monitors fuel injection levels and breaking pressure on heavy vehicles. these things can be altered but are hard to do becasue the wrong tweak and you endanger many.

say the driver of a semi truck decides he wants to change the pressure applied to the front breaks of his truck and the time it takes to reach full pressure. so he does what he thinks are appropriate adjustments. then he is driving and needs to slam on his breaks for some reason, front locks up his head gets slammed into the stearing wheel and he releases the break out of sheer panic. now there is a semi out of control and people could easily die.

this is an extreme case but it does show why users should not have access to some things. atleast not without proper training.

[killerbeesateme]

I am in full support for the open source bios. Mainly because of new features and removal of features. My major fear is this "Trusted Computing" bullcrap, because there's one thing i've learned. NEVER TRUST THE COMPUTER! no matter how much software or hardware that there, simple fact is, you can't trust it. Unless you built it yourself, have it unplugged from any network, and have kept your eyes on it at all times, 100% of the time, there is no way you can have 100% confidence in it. maybe thats just me, but i never put my full trust in it. but Back to my main point. I'm scared of Trusted Computing. Motherboard manufacturers don't make that much money, so they'll suffer the most, but they are also the easiest to target. Microsoft is pushing it because they see the money in it. Now, I know the anti-trust guys wouldn't go for it, but if Microsoft greased the palms of the mobo manufacturers then the chips could make its way in there. It could be like some of the chips they have now that have some virus protection in them. They could just say it helps deter spyware and malware because the hardware makes sure the software is secure. Another point, the RIAA and MPAA and any other AA's could grease some palms as well. Just to make sure that it gets in there hook line and sinker. Now i'm just going thru hypotheticals so i'm not garaunteeing any of this is even remotely legal or feasible.

Plus, people say they'd never buy it, but some people can't think themselves out of a dialogue box, and they'll easily bite on a product that works with windows and promises a significantly less amount of virus's, malware and spyware. If you market anything write the computer stupid will buy it. Plus alot of people don't build their own machines, they buy the HPs, E-machines, and Dells. So alot of them don't even realize there's a choice in motherboards. It sounds conspiracy-ish, but if the payoff is there for those company's, they'll pop the chips in there. Low and behold, you can't back up your dvds because your hardware simply goes "I'm sorry, I can't find the disk" but if you click play in media player, it plays right away.

Hardware things like this scares me, because I could get locked into a Windows and Mac only world. No more fun with linux until someone figures out how to emulate the conversation with the chips right. That could kill poor little tux in one shot. All that aside, another factor, is the fact that the BIOS could check for the existance of the chip. So you wouldn't be able to go the low-tech route and pull the chip out manually (i'm not sure about the feasability of this way anyhow, since it would probably screw up the way the electrons flow thru the mobo).

An Open Bios wouldn't be a bad idea, it would empower users. True, if a user is dumb enough to screw around with it, they'll get burned. But its the same with the OS. If I delete an important windows file, then i'm screwed. I have to reinstall windows. You break the Bios, then you get to have fun putting it back on. Motherboard manufacturers would just need to put in a ROM chip that would load a 5 second screen, or a jumper that would allow you to choose from a simple menu like the following: "1) Load new bios? Caution will delete existing configuration 2)Boot up computer normally". If you make a Load screen with those 2 options thats read only, you can't screw it up that bad and accidently make a $300-$4000 rock.

I dunno, more options always seems better than less to me. You just need to know your place, what to touch and what not to. You'd be suprised, alot of people know not to touch certain things.

[Maestr0]

Well they can, all they have to do is go write it

They did. http://www.linuxbios.org/

They do..............buy a Ford and you get a Ford engine, accessories, embedded processors........

And they follow open standards (How do you think all those mechanics run diagnostics on all those different cars?) and parts can be manufatured or replaced by anyone who feels like it.
http://www.sae.org/servlets/techtrac...V&PROD_TYP=STD

say the driver of a semi truck decides he wants to change the pressure applied to the front breaks of his truck and the time it takes to reach full pressure. so he does what he thinks are appropriate adjustments. then he is driving and needs to slam on his breaks for some reason, front locks up his head gets slammed into the stearing wheel and he releases the break out of sheer panic. now there is a semi out of control and people could easily die.

I already follow enough rules invented just because some total idiot came up with an igenious way to be a moron, maybe you you want to live by those rules but I sure dont.
How about my version:

say the driver of a semi truck decides he wants to drink 3 bottles of liquor before driving his rig. so he drinks what he thinks is the appropriate amount to get wasted and goes for a cruise. then he is driving and needs to slam on his breaks for some reason, but he's wasted so his head gets slammed into the stearing wheel and he releases the break out of sheer panic. now there is a semi out of control and people could easily die.
his is an extreme case but it does show why truck drivers should not have access to alcohol. atleast not without proper training.

Gimmie a break. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

-Maestr0

[XTC46]

umm..there are also rules against drinking and driving...


Im just saying that unfortunatley there are idiots in the world who ruin things, so precausions have to be put in place. No one is stopping you from writing your own programs, designing your own mobo and bios. what your asking for is somone else to do the work and you get the benefits.


oh and for everyone who thinks everything should be Open source..you are retarded. why should somone have to give away the secrets to something they design? they deserve to get paid for there work. I agree that open source things rock, but I dont think its fair that alot of these guys bust there asses coding and then get jack for it.

Its part of a trade off, they code things I pay for their code. I build their network, they pay me to do so. Or a mechanic pays for the code, then they pay the mechanic to fix their card. The coder loses if he gives the code away.

[nihil]

And they follow open standards (How do you think all those mechanics run diagnostics on all those different cars?) and parts can be manufatured or replaced by anyone who feels like it.

You appear to be confusing "open source" with industry standards

Sure I use industry standard PC components all the time....................and common diagnostics tools, because a PC is a PC, just like an automobile is an automobile ...............just try fitting a Chevvy door to a Ford

[Maestr0]

No, you are confusing an Open Standard with Open Source. TCP/IP is an open standard, it is not source at all, its a standard. Read the article. I never said everything had to be open source, I said people should have a choice. If you read the article its not about open sourcing the BIOS code at all. "The group now plans to mount a campaign to open up specifications required to write BIOSes" They want the BIOS specifiations to be a disclosed standard witch would allow other coders to produce code which is interoperable with current hardware and operating systems."The campaign will ask those companies, including PC makers and motherboard makers, to make available specifications on their products to allow free software writers to create BIOSes for them." It's not open sourcing anything. "We're not wanting to do anything with the BIOSes from Phoenix or any of the others" The only open source mentioned is the proposal from Intel for an open source framework. All they are asking for is access to the information to make interoperable software. "Detailed specifications on cutting-edge PC hardware may be tough to come by. The information given to BIOS makers now is granted under nondisclosure and it's not clear whether companies such as Intel, PC makers like Dell, or motherboard makers would reveal even a little bit of information." And yes, your industry standard PC components adhere to an open standard which all manufacturers use to insure their components function properly, its no secret. If you wanted to start making PCI cards the specifications are readily available. This is not the case with BIOSs.


-Maestr0