What are my odds? (MicroATX PSU-230W)

[Tim_axe]

I'm not sure how my friend does it, but he runs a tiny Shuttle (name brand) system with an ATI X800 Video Card & AthlonXP @ 2.3GHz + 2x 80GB HDDs, about 3x 80mm fans and a cold cathode light. Fitting it into his tiny shuttle case was one heck of a dremel job, and boy does his PSU exhaust hot air. The sound of his machine powering up & running dwarfs the sound of my huge dual CPU rig...

But of course I have the heavy hitting processing power. Dual AthlonMP Bartons @ 2.43GHz. And a heavy PSU (Vantec Stealth 520...$120 IIRC) to feed them.


Anyways, I would keep away from PowMax.


The 550 watt PSU that comes in the blinged out Diablo case isn't considered great either when under a lot of load, but with a low-power system (such as a basic non-overclocked P4 system) you shouldn't stress it too much to cause problems.

When a cheap supply is under load, heat builds up and components malfunction. It might not produce voltages anywhere close to 12v on the 12v rail (ie spike to 14-17 volts if there is no good over-voltage protetion), and the DC Ripple/Noise can get crazy to the point where in 1 second the voltage can create spikes/valleys that might average out to 12v, but the damage would be done.


Anyways, good luck on the search for a decent PSU

[@---@]

That's some serious processing power you've got there, Tim!

I found a site that gives an idea of how many Watts are being drained by what: http://www.pcpowercooling.com/maxpc/index_cases.htm

Looks like CPU, MOBO, RAM, HDD, CD-RW are the big takers.... Not many can run a functional computer without those.

According to the numbers on that site if I put everything I have here in the box it would (or potentially could) consume 441 Watts! ?All at once, or just when in use?

If I had used that 230 Watt it wouldn't have started a fire; it would have started a bonfire!

Tim:

I was afraid that Diablo might not be up to par, but it does have a huge fan on the inside of it and a mid-sized fan mounted on the outside. I'm still gonna leave the Video/Sound/and floppy out of the case for now. That should save me 25 Watts or so?! I don't play video games or anything, so that shouldn't be a big problem.

Thanks for all the replies... you guys may have saved me a few hundred bucks and a liveable domicile.... :P

[Tim_axe]

PCPower & Cooling is considered by pretty much everyone (including Maximum PC Magazine) to be the powersupply maker you want powering your computer.

But there are of course other people who have issues with their advertising and how they throw it around. Mainly since every other PSU on the market is rated at 25c (which I doubt your house is always at that temp, letalone your PSU) while PC P&C rates theirs at around 50c. Anyways, take their words with a grain of salt if you can't afford it (if you can afford it, get it and don't look back) because you can usually do pretty well with cheaper power (just look at the PSU's HP/Compaq/Dell/Gateway/IBM/etc put in their cheap(er) OEM machines).


I took some of your information and plugged it into this calculator: http://takaman.jp/D/?M=PcbAIQad@ce@cSpVEYaOP&english

I get 222.8 maximum wattage draw. But when you consider how most PSU's on the market are rated way beyond what they could ever achieve (they produce advertising numbers in ways that would boggle your mind), it would be smarter to look in the 400 watt range from a reputable company. Consider a Forton/Sparkle PSU, because those are generously endowed with power (rated more realistically/conservatively than most -- at times exceeding their rated output very easily). And Forton/Sparkle did at some point in time make PSU's for PC P&C, although I don't know who builds them now. Generally they're the same group or something...

So consider Antec's True/Neo series, maybe Vantec (they haven't been around too long, but I haven't heard stories of them blowing up and they're nice heavy suppies), Forton/Sparkle (awesome group). Those are the few I remember off the top of my head. Generally expect to spend $70 - $100 or so on a good PSU.

Also look at this thread @ [H]|Forums for recommended PSUs/companies and ones to avoid -- http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=792566

[@---@]

Thanks, Tim. You have been very helpful. Those links you provided were also really good.

I have some good news, though. I have opted to cut my losses and purchase a different MicroATX case. Maybe I'll sell the case on ebay one day or get an rma # for it and do that. I should have done my homework a little better and seen how hard it was gonna be to purchase a high watt, name-brand, microATX PSU.

Here's a link so you can take a look: http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...154-016&DEPA=1

That one had a bunch of reviews and averaged 5 star on their little rating system over there. I read all of the reviews provided and people seem to be quite happy with this particular case. The width in the front of that case in 7" so that means it can take a regular sized PSU (I also noticed someone in one of the reviews had mentioned that). Thank God!!!

I will still take your advice and go with a named brand, high-wattage, PSU, though. I will NOT be using the one included with this case. It almost seems like they don't sell any microATX over there without throwing in one of those cheapo PSU's. I *should* get all this put together a few weeks... I'll post back with the screenshots and my results.

Peace.

[@---@]

Hate to drag this thread up again.

Well, in an unforeseen twist in my favor it seems everything worked out ok afterall. The mobo in the box in my parents room was from an old Dell 2300 and it just happend to fit in that microatx case I bought (not sure why that never dawned on me). I'm damn glad I didn't use this thing for myself cause I had a hell of a time getting everything in it and the CD-RW isn't even in it! They never use that anyway. It ain't too pretty, but I thought you guys might want to look at what I ended up with. It's funny to me. I'll be getting an enermax 270 Watt for this box at a later date.

The PSU is being held down by velcrow. Image quality not so good:

[HTRegz]

Hey Hey,

This is the first time I saw this thread... Why is everyone around here so power hungry for PSUs?

I've got a full tower..
AMD 2500+
3 Case Fans
2 Optical Drives (1 Combo, 1 DVD-RW)
3 Hard Drives
Floppy & Zip Drives
Vid Card, Sound Card + Onboard Audio, 2 NICs
USB is connected to a printer, thumbdrive, iPod, Graphics Tablet, Forcefeed Back Steering Wheel, RumblePad, webcam, digital cam, card reader... yada yada ayda.

I've got a 350W PSU and it has no problems.

My Roommate is building a micro for his car... It's got a 145W PSU.. CD-RW, Proprietary Video Card, Floppy, HardDrive and that 145 powers it with room to spare. If you do the calculations required on most of these cards and devices, you should never need more than a 350W maybe a 400W and if yer running what this guy is running you could prolly spit and power the damn thing.

My Roommate was running a 350 w/ his tower without problem
AMD 1800+
4 Case Fans
4 Hard Drives
2 Optical Drives
Floppy Drive
and a shitload of other things.
He had to turn it on twice sometimes to start to harddrives spinning, but it ran fine after the harddrives had spun up... Now he's got a 400 and no problems, so how can you justify telling someone with so little hardware that they need such a big ass powersupply..

It's useless.

Peace,
HT

[@---@]

Originally posted here by HTRegz
Hey Hey,

This is the first time I saw this thread... Why is everyone around here so power hungry for PSUs?

I realized the same thing today when I found this link. It was a real eye opener for me:http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page4.html

I think the article backs up your statement quite nicely.

[ZT3000]

Why is everyone around here so power hungry for PSUs?

Wasn't it already mentioned, HTRegZ?

It's not the total amount of watts you are ultimately concerned with. Even 450watt power supply can suck, and there are plenty of them out there. It's how much wattage each rail is consistently provided, including peak rail numbers.

Guess my name isn't "everyone".

I could have gone on to say that power supplies running at higher than manufacturer tested temperatures are not nearly as efficient and won't even meet the listed spec outputs. I wouldn't be surprised if manufacturers rated their power supplies at such high numbers but only based on low ambient test/room temperatures.

A case in point would eventually be @---@'s case, a heat holding no circulation little box of a thing with a low quality mini 230w power supply.

Not to mention:

My Roommate was running a 350 w/ his tower without problem

Oh yeah, no problems....??

He had to turn it on twice sometimes to start to harddrives spinning

Hmmm...sound like a problem to anyone?

But to your roommate's credit:

Now he's got a 400 and no problems

Guess he was exceeding peak loads on startup and need that larger powersupply.

[ZT3000]

Originally posted here by @---@
I realized the same thing today when I found this link. It was a real eye opener for me:http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page4.html

I think the article backs up your statement quite nicely.

I read that article too, after you linked it.

Whose statement are you saying that article backs up? HTRegZ?

[Chesire Cat grin]

[HTRegz]

Hey Hey,

Originally posted here by ZT3000
Wasn't it already mentioned, HTRegZ?


Guess my name isn't "everyone".

Nope.. I checked it's definately not everyone... it's ZT3000

I could have gone on to say that power supplies running at higher than manufacturer tested temperatures are not nearly as efficient and won't even meet the listed spec outputs. I wouldn't be surprised if manufacturers rated their power supplies at such high numbers but only based on low ambient test/room temperatures.

I could care less what a PSU is outputting or rated at... I've seen people say you need a 400W or 500W PSU... My roommates and my PCs draw combined maybe 350W.... We had to demonstrate power consumption for a landlord to prove we weren't abusing our all inclusive rent... That would mean my full tower is pulling 175W roughly.... What power supply can't do that (other than the 145W Micro he has)... sure ya need more for startup.. but you do the double start and all is well.

A case in point would eventually be @---@'s case, a heat holding no circulation little box of a thing with a low quality mini 230w power supply.

The powersupply would still have been more than enough, as I said my roommates is running off 145W microATX PSU and it's in an acryllic case, with everything sitting on top of the motherboard... It's like a Rubik's Cube to attempt to put the thing together again, but it runs just fine.

Not to mention:


Oh yeah, no problems....??

Hmmm...sound like a problem to anyone?

Not a problem at all... It's an annoyance... If you're call stalls every second or third time you drive it around, it's not necessarily a problem and not something everyone would run right out and spend money on...


Peace,
HT