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Thread: Freedom?

  1. #1


    Hello everyone. It's been a while huh? I just came by to poke at your brains for a minute with a few questions. The 4th of July is comming up, our nation's independence day. What is your idea of freedom? What would you do to keep it & why? Do we do more harm than good by trying to spread our philosophical and political ideas to other nations, such as Iraq? Maybe our views of freedom are different from what other countries think. Also, about the war on terrorisim ... how do you think it's going? Are the people of Iraq and Afganistan safer since we've been there?
    “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #2
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    United Kingdom: Bridlington
    Do we do more harm than good by trying to spread our philosophical and political ideas to other nations, such as Iraq?
    My view would be that it would be impossible for the USA to do such a thing as long as they do it in plain view. Now, when you get covert stuff like Ollie North and the contras then it becomes very possible, because you have just dived into the cess pit with the rest of them.

    Government must be overt not covert?

    I think that our problem has been:

    1. Not following through...........Bush #1? we could have sorted it then? Instead we gave them 10 years to plot and plan.

    2. Having no endgame strategy and logistics? this time it was almost as if we did not expect to win? water and electricity for how long?...........hell, we did better with the Berlin airlift didn't we?

  3. #3
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Freedom. Well, my idea of freedom has already been rejected by
    about 98% of the population of the country. That is the idea that they
    leave you alone unless you have committed a crime...sigh.

    I'm not sure we have any agreed definition of what we want to do
    for Iraq, since G.Bush is vague in his statements about freedom,
    and the opposition believe that he's hypocritical and wanting to
    steal the oil for his Texas cronies.

    Liberals, in the old days, were anxious to use US power to spread
    the concept of democracy. That's what got us into Vietnam.
    It was Ideology, because Vietnam had no resources that
    the US would spend all that effort to loot.

    So, today, Bush has taken the liberal path, and the opposition are
    more conservative, in that they are cynical about "helping" other
    nations by teaching them our ideology.

    I do believe that our political system is superior to most,
    but there is only so much you can do to help.
    People all over the world had a higher opinion of Americans in the
    1930s, when we sent no "foreign aid", and had no
    alliances, and swore that we would not get involved in anyones
    wars. We were less ideological, more oriented toward business
    and profit.

    So the irony is that the more you flatter yourself that you are
    helping others, the less they appreciate you. Relationships are built
    on respect, and you demonstrate lack of respect when
    you are a "do gooder" always changing other people's regimes.
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    I tend to agree with RCgreen and can sum up my belief on what is freedom with one word: Liberatrianism. You do what you will with yours, I'll do what I will with mine. If we then have a problem or conflict of interests, then and only the will we get the government involved and have the courts decide.
    \"Greatness only comes at great risk.\" ~ Personal/Generic

  5. #5
    Custom User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    I think the problem that the many western governments seem to have is that they believe that freedom == capatalism.


  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004

    I do believe that our political system is superior to most,
    but there is only so much you can do to help.
    Hmm your current voting system(people vote per state and then ALL the weight of the state is put into the party that won in that state) is awkward at least. But i mostly think it is flawed.

    Also you currently only have two party's. I know there are some other small parties but i dont think they really matter do you ?

    A two party system seems very limiting.
    Since the beginning of time, Man has searched for the answers to the big questions: \'How did we get here?\' \'Is there life after death?\' \'Are we alone?\' But today, in this very theatre, you will be asked to answer the biggest question of them all...WHO LIVES IN A PINEAPPLE UNDER THE SEA?

  7. #7
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Hi Moonwolf, The state voting system is not akward at all. It is in fact brilliant. The united states wouldn't be the "united" "states" without it. A united group (union) of self governing states. The issue with the modern version is not the fact that our voting system is flawed it is the fact the the ferderal government has surpassed the power originally intended and many state laws are bested by the federal version. We go back and forth on what is a state issues versus a federal issue. I wouldn't call it perfect but I would call it akward either.
    West of House
    You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
    There is a small mailbox here.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Freedom is, at least this day in age, a relative comparison of how much your country lets you do as opposed to how much another country lets you do.

  9. #9
    Old ancient one vanman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Freestate,South Africa
    To me freedom is to have the right to 1.Speak your mind and not to get killed for it!!2.To have access to basic needs like water,electricity and maybe to have a roof over your head if you are fortunate enough..3.Have a goverment that treat you as a individual with respect just as they would expect it from you..4.MOST IMPORTANT.TO HAVE A PC AND THE INTERNET TO BE ABLE TO JOIN ANTIONLINE!!!Sorry guys i could not resist..

    Hmm..Me thinking AO..We are a little planet out there in the universe...keeping an eye on earth,s valuable pc networks, because without us!!!!They are lost down there..

    We are unique even if others think we are geeks but we know different don,t we!!
    Practise what you preach.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    I'm a soldier. I've been in places and seen people that have or didn't have the freedoms we do. I greatly appreciate and value what liberties I'm given. something you fight for. It's something you hold sacred. It's what gives you the ability to wake up every morning and say to yourself, "What do I want to do today?" I love my country. No country is perfect, but get around sometime, see a place that does things differently. Get some perspective other than CNN if you want a reason for loving America.
    \"Today a young man on acid realizes that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one conscienceness experiencing itself subjectively; life is only a dream and we\'re an imagination of ourselves. Here\'s Tom with the weather.\"

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