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Thread: Soldier's blog closed just minutes ago as debate rages

  1. #11
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    From Here: http://dean4az.blogspot.com/2005/07/...ard-clark.html
    In response to my earlier post regarding Clark's "brothers and sisters" The marine corp radio operator thinks somehow I am the coward since I did not address specific instances of Mr. Clark's cowardice. I have read his posts and can give you numerous instances of his cowardice. It is clear he is not a willing participant in this fight and is clearly politically opposed to it. His references to his superior officers is clearly insubordination. Any man that endangers his fellow man to make his political voice heard, is absolutely a coward. And he clearly endagered his fellow soldiers with his daily rants that gave a clear idea of his location, as well as, outlining daily operations. He also wrote, in detail, how to take out our soldiers with snipers. Do you think there is any coincidence that he plans to run for public office with his political agenda already on the table and getting a large amount of press. Why couldn't this man just do his job, that he signed up for by the way!, and wait until he was finished to poke his fingers in the military's eyes. He even describes the advances the Iraqi people are making. He acknowledges the political battles being waged here has a direct impact on our forces morale and lends aid to the enemy by forcing withdrawl dates or cutbacks in troop numbers. If you think this fight will go away if we leave Iraq, you are absolutely wrong and incredibly naive. This war will resurface somewhere else, probably in our own backyard. I am sick and tired of the rhetoric and nonsense I hear about all of conspiracy theories because of the hatred and for our sitting President. These are the same people that lift people like PFC Clark up on a pedestal to support their arguments and agenda regardless of who may be harmed because of Clark's lack of regard for the welfare of his fellow soldiers. I am sure there are plenty of soldiers that share Mr. Clark's views, I am also sure there are plenty more that do not. As to the last response that said "BULLSHIT", How can I respond to such a well thought out retort. Touche'
    As a sargeant he is responsible for the men he commands welfare both physical and mental. To be publishing his thoughts and political asperations, especialy his objections to the war, would be completely demoralising to those he commanded. Hence, I suspect, the demotion.

    As for freedom of speech, you loose those rights when you join the armed services. The armed services are not a democratic institution, they are an autocratic institution. They need to be, they could never function as an effective force if it where any other way.
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  2. #12
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    Hey Hey,

    I've done a lot of research on the net since you said you give up your freedom of speech upon joining the army... There's a great document on the subject @ http://www.au.af.mil/au/cpd/jagschoo...ers/speech.doc

    While it agrees, for the most part with what you say... the General Rules sums it up very nicely.

    A commander of a military installation may restrict freedom of expression if the restriction prevents a clear and present danger to the orderly accomplishment of the mission or to morale, discipline or loyalty.
    From the posts that I've seen, I don't think he was hurting morale.... He was telling it like it is.. If a few air-head army grunts (we all know that's exactly what they are) can't handle someone saying they're in the wrong for being their.. they should prolly turn their guns on themselves... Morale.. boohoo that's a bunch of whining. However, I can see it interpreted that way... in that case the only thing the Military had a right to do was restrict his freedom from that point on... Their own general rule states that.. This is an Air Force document but as far as I could tell they are all governed by the UCMJ. If you wanted to get technical the UCMJ only has one charge that could maybe be twisted into applying and that's Title 10,888 Article 88 - Contempt towards officials.

    Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
    Even that, from what I've read is a stretch..

    That is quite the write-up that you've posted jinxy, but at the same time there are others that are military members who have posted on that same page that feel he's being railroaded.

    Had there been a clearly stated law/rule that said Don't speak out against the actions of the Army.. then by all means they were right... but there isn't... so they're wrong... Why stand up for the US Military/Government in the first place.... Pick up a gun and strke them down... be the first American to grow balls and do something instead of supporting their witch hunt..

    Between this and the whole Bolton Scandal I'm pretty sure that the US is officially a Dictatorship.

    Peace,
    HT
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  3. #13
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    That is quite the write-up that you've posted jinxy, but at the same time there are others that are military members who have posted on that same page that feel he's being railroaded.
    **** man, he's been bust down to private and find. Big deal.

    I been busted twice. Once also got me seven days loss of pay. That was for having a lady in my accomodation and I hadn't even got down to the reason she was therefore

    As for military law Im a Brit, so can't comment on the interpritations you make of what you have read. Us Brits have three levels of Law/regulations to abide by. Civil Law(in what ever country you serve and in fact they aplly UK law on top) Queens regulations and The Army Act.
    What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad. - Dave Barry

  4. #14
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    Hi Everybody,

    Unfortunately, we don't have all his posts to determine just how far he went...except those few that I did read that were preserved by another site ( original link I posted will lead you to them )...so...we pretty much have to rely upon the opinions of his supporters and his detractors...

    Like I said before...I'm split on this one...

    ontheonehand, morale, as I said before, is an issue, especially in the military, because low morale causes men to hesitate, slower response rates, distractions, etc...things that can mean the difference between whether you live or die, according to the alertness and confidence you have in what your doing...

    and ontheotherhand, freedom of speech is a well fought argument in the States...everyone from the media to the KKK has touted their rights to it...it is perhaps the most celebrated right in the constitution.

    Eg

  5. #15
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    Between this and the whole Bolton Scandal I'm pretty sure that the US is officially a Dictatorship.
    " Innkeeper, can I have a pint of what HT~ has been drinking!

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  6. #16
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    Originally posted here by nihil
    " Innkeeper, can I have a pint of what HT~ has been drinking!

    Spot the odd one out:

    Adolf Hitler
    Benito Mussolini
    Josef Stalin
    Nero
    Caligula
    Francisco Franco
    Dr. Salazar
    George. W. Bush
    Napoleon Bonaparte



    I don't see an odd one out... GWB fits in their perfectly.... give him another year or two and he'll find a way to create a state of emergency so that he has to cancel elections and place himself in total power and then you'll see everything happen.... It's time for Americans to revolt and stop being pussies.

    Peace
    HT
    IT Blog: .:Computer Defense:.
    PnCHd (Pronounced Pinched): Acronym - Point 'n Click Hacked. As in: "That website was pinched" or "The skiddie pinched my computer because I forgot to patch".

  7. #17
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    Wake up HT. IF George does that or any of the socialist democrats who would gladly make us a Marxist state... some of us will fight. IF an imense army can't control a few towel heads, they won't take the republic from those for which it stands. I would gladly take up arms and go underground, leaving all I have behind. Uh oh I think I triggered Eschelon.
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  8. #18
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    a few towel heads
    cute!

    Like Ega said, we haven't read every post. Giving his opinion on military matters may not be a crime, but what purpose did it serve? Maybe it made him feel better getting it off his chest. Next time, keep a diary, soldier.

    I have the right to tell a child with leukemia that his/her chance of survival is less than 10%, if its the truth. However, just because I have the right doesnt mean I will. The child is already aware of the circumstances, so why make it worse?

    This case is like that to me. When the soldier looks back, do you think he thinks his statements were worth his job?
    Difficult takes a day, Impossible takes a week~Kthln01!

  9. #19
    Senior Member RoadClosed's Avatar
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    Irony...

    All through-out the war there have been stories like these, where Freedom of speech becomes an issue. Because some idiot who joined a killing force and took an oath all of a sudden woke up to the fact that hey... I am in the "military" duh. What did you think that gun was for? Or that tank, or that grenade or that night scope or that boat or armored car or flack vest?

    Even though it makes sense that people in uniform should have some limitations of what they can say. Given the fact that they are representive of the US and it's government. So everyone cries foul, even though the rules are clear.

    But put a bible in their hand and let them represent god while in uniforn and all hell breaks loose and freedom of speech suddenly becomes mute. Or let them speek about any ideology the doesn't fit the left and WAHHHHHHHHH. The government must supress them they can't represent that, it fosters government support for something. Doesn't count the other way. And who the hell does he think he is posting the dead before family can be notified. He falls into the fcktwit catagory. But the left idolizes those types. Heros of a broken nation? Lol. //EDIT After all look what it did for John F. Kerry?
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  10. #20
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    And who the hell does he think he is posting the dead before family can be notified.
    Wasnt there a journalist or photographer a while back (some lady) that got into serious trouble because she took photos of the coffins brought back from overseas and sent them to people?

    I think the gov't was upset because they didnt want the American people to see how the bodies were transported or something...
    Difficult takes a day, Impossible takes a week~Kthln01!

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