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Thread: The cost of online anonymity

  1. #11
    rebmeM roineS enilnOitnA steve.milner's Avatar
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    I'm not a great beleiver in anonimity.

    Certainly I would like to be able to spout my usual waffle without a member of the public being able to kick down my house door to berate me about it, but I have no problem with law enforcement agencies knowing what I do & write while online.

    Only the guilty have something to hide.

    But then I live somewhere which is almost a democracy and is reasonably tolerant of free speech.

    Steve
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  2. #12
    Kwiep
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    To add a new view to this. Willingness as such to disclose everything to law enforcement agencies, because you're not doing anything illegal is based on an unwavering trust in the pure lawfullness and justness of those law enforcement agencies and their overseeing bodies. How about if you don't like the current government and what they do, how about you're wrongly accused of things, how about corruption, how about aciidental information leakage etc. Being not-guilty and being not-wrong and being not-convicted are three different things in a non-perfect world.

    Damn I sound philosophical.
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  3. #13
    AO Senior Cow-beller
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    Originally posted here by the_JinX
    That is such a weak excuse..

    Oh.. if you have nothing to hide.. just let me browse thrue your panties.. k..
    What you don't want me to browse thrue your personal photo's.. got something to hide ??
    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    -- Benjamin Franklin, founding father of The United States of America (attributed)
    Many would argue he is one of the great historical figures definable as a "hacker" (positive connotation)

    The response to this should be "what do I have to prove?" Without formal charges by a proper court of law, they can go piss off.

    As a former Police Officer, I can certainly understand the statement and the position of the investigators that might make it; they are simply trying to do their job. But as a free citizen of the Repulic, I don't give a rat's ass. My privacy is mine to treasure or relinquish as I see fit, without explanation. Bring a warrant, or go have a nice warm cup of shut the f*** up.
    "Data is not necessarily information. Information does not necessarily lead to knowledge. And knowledge is not always sufficient to discover truth and breed wisdom." --Spaf
    Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be allowed to do the job. --Douglas Adams (1952-2001)
    "...people find it far easier to forgive others for being wrong than being right." - Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore

  4. #14
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    Originally posted here by neel
    To add a new view to this. Willingness as such to disclose everything to law enforcement agencies, because you're not doing anything illegal is based on an unwavering trust in the pure lawfullness and justness of those law enforcement agencies and their overseeing bodies. How about if you don't like the current government and what they do, how about you're wrongly accused of things, how about corruption, how about aciidental information leakage etc. Being not-guilty and being not-wrong and being not-convicted are three different things in a non-perfect world.

    Damn I sound philosophical.
    Yes you do

    A lot of places that's the exact situation where you don't like the current government and the very privacy you need is to be used against that government. Sure they'll try to 'crack open' your activities and know what you're doing and lock you down, but that makes it no less an issue for people in free [more or less] countries to worry about. If it's possible there one must never ever be comfortable enough and say nothing like that can happen in my country. Nowadays the transition is less likely to be abrupt [coup d'etat or what have you] and more of an Orwellian mode. And people relinquishing their privacy is far better than people having their privacy taken from them. From the same "1984", to paraphrase, it's much more a victory once you convince people that what they're doing is what they want to be doing. Give them the illusion of free speech.


    Originally posted here by zencoder
    [B]

    [i]My privacy is mine to treasure or relinquish as I see fit, without explanation. Bring a warrant, or go have a nice warm cup of shut the f*** up.
    Well you can say this because, more or less, you're given a choice in the matter. But the article does consider those countries where a search warrant doesn't exist and where your privacy is not up to you to keep or give up as you please.

    And who knows what tomorrow brings?
    /\\

  5. #15
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    Like many things in life, this is something that should be based in context. For example, if a police officer wanted to look in my backyard for evidence because a thief ran through it, I'd gladly let them take a gander without a warrant. However, I wouldn't let them paw through all my stuff unless I was damn sure that they had a good reason, hence waiting for a warrant.

    My privacy is mine to treasure or relinquish as I see fit, without explanation. Bring a warrant, or go have a nice warm cup of shut the f*** up
    Precicely! Its yours, but you may CHOOSE to relinquish it if YOU feel its appropriate.
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  6. #16
    AO Senior Cow-beller
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    Originally posted here by hypronix
    Yes you do

    A lot of places that's the exact situation where you don't like the current government and the very privacy you need is to be used against that government. Sure they'll try to 'crack open' your activities and know what you're doing and lock you down, but that makes it no less an issue for people in free [more or less] countries to worry about.
    Those of us here who live in the US must remember that our founding fathers and signers of our Declaration of Independence were in fact subjects of the british crown, and they were revolting and encouraging insurgency against the British. I'm sounding like a libertarian now, but the truth is, if we trully, honestly, and realistically hold "freedom" and "liberty" so dearly, we must not take them for granted.

    I am not suggesting you automatically deny a request from the authorities if they are ASKING you to be helpful...but as neel implies, if we had an unshakeable and unwavering trust in our law enforcement authorities and governing bodies, there would be NO NEED for a Bill of Rights amended to our Constitution. How many of you are willing to give up those rights, at the simple request of an "authority"?

    I don't want to come off as a hardliner, anti-gov't sort. But the truth is, govt's are made up of people, and people are a problem my friends. Each and every one of us. We have emotions, biased opinions, and differing perspectives. So how can John Q. Public expect to always be treated with 100% proper respect, reasonable doubt, and justice cause, at all times and in all manners, by the PEOPLE who function in our governing bodies? Honestly, he can't; and thus we have the founding intent of the Bill of Rights.


    /* Edit: Again, beaten to the punch of the "Post Reply" button, by WolfRune */

    CONTEXT is of course exactly what I mean in that third paragraph. I am addressing primarly the accusational "so why can't we take a look, if you have nothing to hide" mentality. The "can we look in your private rooms to see if evidence of something we believe to have occurred, that has no likely bearing on you whatsoever?" mentality is totally different...if that's the truth. Ever hear the old urban legend (in the US) about asking someone if they are a Narc before you buy or sell dope, because "Narc's can't lie about that"? Total and utter bullshit.

    Lying to someone as an investigator (because, let's face it...if they are speaking to this investigator, they are doing so willingly, even if they don't know the true identity of the subject) is completely within the realm of acceptable. And don't go spouting "entrapment" until you understand the full legal definition of that word within the realm of a US court.
    "Data is not necessarily information. Information does not necessarily lead to knowledge. And knowledge is not always sufficient to discover truth and breed wisdom." --Spaf
    Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be allowed to do the job. --Douglas Adams (1952-2001)
    "...people find it far easier to forgive others for being wrong than being right." - Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore

  7. #17
    Macht Nicht Aus moxnix's Avatar
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    Let me preface this with the statement that, "I am pro Law Enforcement".

    But, I have seen cops plant evidence and or incriminating substance in or on unsuspecting citizens. Like others have stated, I would allow a police officer to inspect my property and such to try to solve a crime, or track a criminal. I would be highly suspicious of one that just wanted to look in my house or car though.

    I personally think we have lost to many rights where search and seizure are concerned, and I believe that we are going to lose more in the future.
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  8. #18
    The ******* Shadow dalek's Avatar
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    For example, if a police officer wanted to look in my backyard for evidence because a thief ran through it,
    That's doing the civic thing, but sayy just as they were about to leave they notice a funny looking bed of plants, and not being too much of a "green" thumb decide that it looks "suspicious", and hey mind if I look around while my partner goes back the car and calls in a "Search Warrant"

    The law will use every advantage available to (within the law) to obtain or search if a person is deemed to be "suspicious", this could mean you are sweating profusley (regardless it's maybe 100deg out), or you won't look them in the "eyes", in other words act nervous and hey you must be guilty of something.

    And whils't I admire the American's and their freedoms, the "Homeland Security or Patriot Act" scares the S**T out of me, but that could be because I don't understand the full extent of the act, as it concerns me
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  9. #19
    AO Senior Cow-beller
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    Originally posted here by dalek
    ...the "Homeland Security or Patriot Act" scares the S**T out of me...
    You and me both. Forgive me if I sound ignorant (the big dumb American says), but what Freedoms do you admire from the US that you as a Canadian do not enjoy? Just curious...I know there are nominal differences, but you seem to imply something more.
    "Data is not necessarily information. Information does not necessarily lead to knowledge. And knowledge is not always sufficient to discover truth and breed wisdom." --Spaf
    Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be allowed to do the job. --Douglas Adams (1952-2001)
    "...people find it far easier to forgive others for being wrong than being right." - Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore

  10. #20
    Leftie Linux Lover the_JinX's Avatar
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    http://www.flexyourrights.org/at_your_door
    This is common sense: Always keep any private items that you don't want others to see out of sight. Legally speaking, police do not need a search warrant in order to confiscate any illegal items that are in plain view.
    Combine that with
    While you are under no obligation to answer police questions, it will often be possible to terminate the encounter simply by agreeing to turn down your music or bring your barking dog in from the backyard. If the police officer indicates that he or she would like to enter your home, you have become a criminal suspect and must be prepared to exercise your constitutional rights.
    You see how there might be a problem..

    Let's take a car as example..
    http://www.expertlaw.com/library/cri...ice_stops.html
    During an investigative stop, or a traffic stop, a police officer may ask if he can search you or your car. However, if you give the police officer permission, he can perform the search even if he otherwise had no legal authority to do so. Some people don't know, or forget, that they have an "open" bottle of liquor in the car - a bottle with the seal broken, whether or not the cap is off. Sometimes, people have knives or other weapons which can be classified as illegal "concealed weapons." Sometimes, people forget that they have contraband in their cars, such as illegal drugs, or find to their chagrin that their teenaged child dropped a marijuana cigarette in the car. Unless you are the only person with access to the interior of your car, you may be in for a surprise if you grant permission for a search.
    The same goes for your computer..
    Unless you are the only person with access to your computer,
    You may be in for a surprise if you grant permission for a search.
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