life sentence with out parole for young offenders.
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  1. #1
    AO Guinness Monster MURACU's Avatar
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    life sentence with out parole for young offenders.

    I run across this article and just wondered what your take on this is. You can find the full story HERE BBC . I

    The US must stop giving young offenders life sentences without the chance of parole, human rights groups have said.
    A report by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch said such prisoners - numbering at least 2,225 in the US - must have access to parole processes.

    The report says no more than 12 young offenders are serving life without parole in the rest of the world, where the punishment is largely outlawed.
    The rights groups spoke to some 375 inmates and used data from many states.

    The 157-page report, entitled The Rest of their Lives: Life without Parole for Child Offenders in the United States, was compiled over two years.
    It found that 42 US states have laws allowing for offenders under the age of 18 to be sentenced to jail for life with no possibility of parole.
    I am for underaged kids being punished if they commit crimes but i do think that except in extreme case and were the person concerned is close to the legal age when they commit the crime life in prison with out the possiablity of parole is over the top. especially if this qoute is true :
    Across the US, black youth were found to be 10 times more likely to receive life without parole than white youth.
    In Pennsylvania, Hispanic youth were found to be ten times more likely to receive the sentence than their white contemporaries.
    \"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.\"
    \"The reason we are so pleased to find other people\'s secrets is that it distracts public attention from our own.\"
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    Well, what worries me more is that the US justice system seems to be a bit racist. Your second quote makes that clear. But is it because it's a racist system or are black youth really committing 10 times more crimes than the white youth? And if the black youth commit more crimes than white youth, why do they misbehave that badly?

    I think the people in the USA have some problems dealing with the high criminal rates all over the country. They try to solve it by demanding more severe punishments but that doesn't help. I think that to solve this problem, the USA should improve it's educational system. Take a look, for example, at the CIA factbook and notice that in the USA only 97% of all people are literate. With a population of 295,734,134 this means 8,872,024 illiterate people. (About half the population size of the Netherlands, and we have a 99% literate score.) Too bad the factbook doesn't provide similar numbers for the whole EU. And this quote from the factbook does also show some other problem within the USA:
    consumer of cocaine shipped from Colombia through Mexico and the Caribbean; consumer of heroin, marijuana, and increasingly methamphetamine from Mexico; consumer of high-quality Southeast Asian heroin; illicit producer of cannabis, marijuana, depressants, stimulants, hallucinogens, and methamphetamine; money-laundering center
    But this just shows the huge problem in the USA. Too many people who lack a proper education and thus have lots of trouble in our modern society where literacy is a requirement. And a huge consumption of all kinds of drugs to keep the people 'happy'. A problem that doesn't get solved by all those huge punishments anyway, because it hasn't stopped anyone yet.

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    AO Guinness Monster MURACU's Avatar
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    I think most of the problem comes from the idea of poverty and how being poor is percieved in america. Probably the most important factor decideing the jail term is how the person is represented. I am sure that a black kid from a middle class family would get a better trail and sentence than a black kid from a poorer family. There is a belief in the United States that if you want you can make something of yourself and those who are poor are poor because they are much happier living off the state than getting a real job.
    \"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.\"
    \"The reason we are so pleased to find other people\'s secrets is that it distracts public attention from our own.\"
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    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    It depends on what kind of crime they have committed.
    If they have only smoked a little dope, that's one thing,
    but if the authorities fail to punish brutal rapes and murders,
    they are as guilty as the perpetrators because they have
    encouraged more crime by their failure to enforce the law.

    But I agree. Life without parole is inhumane for anyone.
    Hanging is more merciful, and I highly recommend it as
    an alternative.
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

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    The ******* Shadow dalek's Avatar
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    Then there's the problem of some lawyers Yawn , seriously though I don't think poverty is the crutch a lot of people like to use, sure it's easy to blame society because of a certain segment being down due to unemployment or disabilities and therefore they go running around breaking the law.
    I have constantly read in the news where young Joey and his pals were arrested the other night vandalising or robbing a corner store, then you read on and you find out that both parents work, bringing in approx 6 figures a year in salary combined and while young Joey and pals were out doing mischief , the parents had gone to the cottage for the weekend and handed the kids the keys to the house, I am talking 16, 17 and 18yr olds and possibly younger.

    One of the biggest problems around here is "Joyriding, teens ripping off cars to do the race thing, and then when the cops give chase, go barrelling through town, and whoops the next thing you know they are responsible for the death of a women in her 50's who leaves a husband and two children behind, and then when these kids are hauled into the pansy waisted court syustem here in Canada, they try to determine whether or not because of their age and severity of the case whether or not to try them as adults.

    Give me a break you do the crime you do the time.

    I will agree to a point that there seems to be a lot of racial profiling going on throughout North America, I think what the problem is, is the media has finely caught on to covering a lot of what goes on in the courts (Thanks to OJ) and the cities and towns are keeping better stats.So a lot of this is out in the open and is spread across the airwaves, ala http://truedemocracy.net/td2_4/03-bolger.html or how about these Amber Alerts, why couldn't these be in place 20yrs ago, how many children have been kidnapped,abused,killed,because of apathy.

    During Dickens time, a child stealing bread was hanged, didn't matter what age, and those were probably truly destitute people who stole food to survive.

    Bottom line if you are old enough to understand the consequences of your actions, then however long the jail time is on the books (always up to the judge to decide based upon guidelines) then that is what they should serve, why should they be allowed to obtain a second chance at life when the victim only had one and they took it away. Sorry but IMO they commit the crime of murder and they can rot.
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    TIs not a racists thing its a calss thing. Unfortunitly a lot of the poor in this country are black...But if you look at the numbers poor white/black go to jail mopre often and for longer sentances then the wealthy...its an issue of who has access to good lawyers and who has to rely on the PD's who are understaffed and overworked.
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  7. #7
    AO Guinness Monster MURACU's Avatar
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    Dalek,
    The point I am making is not that the fact they are from somebroken up family living in a ghetto should excuse them from the consequences of their crime it is more there is a problem of social or wealth profiling also. Your little joey whose parents can afford to pay for a good lawer will get a lower jail sentence than little joey who comes from a poorer background. For me being from a poor or black family shouldn't mean that you get heavier jail sentences.
    I've made my opions on the jail system that exists today clear in many other posts but my basic belief is that hard labour should be brought back. You commit a crime you should pay for it. The same crime should get the same sentence.

    edit : Dalek I didn't see your link first but that is disturbing. The evidance points to one of them committing the murder. That one admits and pleads guilty. He is released after 8 years. The other one for whom apperently there is little evidance of him committing murder gets sentenced to death. Wierd. Added to the fact he is getting either released or retried because his lawer kept falling asleep just shows how ridiculous the system can be.
    \"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.\"
    \"The reason we are so pleased to find other people\'s secrets is that it distracts public attention from our own.\"
    Oscar Wilde(1854-1900)

  8. #8
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    One of the most important reasons for racism in the courts today
    is that the authorities insist on giving judges the power to give
    widely different punishments for the same crime. This idea was
    introduced as a so-called reform, but has caused nothing but
    injustice. If you asked prison inmates what is their biggest
    complaint against the system, this is it.

    Judges are not gods. they can't know your "inner self", so they
    cannot craft a punishment that is uniquely suited to you.
    It would be best to return to the day when the sentence was
    written into the law. You steal a car, that's two years;
    steal a fire truck, five years. etc.

    If a guy knows ahead of time what the punishment is, he can rationally decide if it's
    worth the risk to steal that carton of smokes, or shoot a rival rapper.
    As it stands now, some people get heinous sentences for minor ****
    while others get probation for horrible murders.
    Giving judges wide "discretion" was supposed to be a "liberal"
    reform. The results are anything but liberal.
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

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    Originally posted here by MURACU
    Dalek,
    The point I am making is not that the fact they are from somebroken up family living in a ghetto should excuse them from the consequences of their crime it is more there is a problem of social or wealth profiling also. Your little joey whose parents can afford to pay for a good lawer will get a lower jail sentence than little joey who comes from a poorer background. For me being from a poor or black family shouldn't mean that you get heavier jail sentences.

    Because Joey actually has parents...... maybe Joey’s only a first offender...... maybe having actually paid for court fees and lawyer’s fees shows that your parents actually do care and might turn you around. Ted on the other hand, his parents don't give a ****, the court sees this and decides the gov should parent him now through forced "time out" in a corner. It's all about how you were raised, and the fact of the matter is in our ghettos the majority aren't really raised just produced.

    Poverty area= high crime/ high drug abuse............ forgotten kids more likely to have committed numerous crimes before they were caught for the first.


    Across town different story percentages drop.

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    I don't think it is race, class or economic status so much as severity. Juveniles in this country can be tried as adults based on the severity and nature of the crime committed. This is decided prior to prosecution. Once that decision is made, the perp is no longer protected by juvenile status. Granted, life without the possiblity of parole seems severe. So was the crime, mostly likely. Keep in mind that the sentence is issued by a judge after a public trial, and the judge must abide by sentencing standards of the state. There must be compelling reasons to apply that level of sentence. It isn't arbitrary in any way.

    'Course, I would invite you to spend a few minutes alone in a locked room with one of those inmates. I think your opinion of the fitness of the punishment would change very quickly.

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