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Thread: Possible to mount a flash drive in Linux/Unix?

  1. #11
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    FAT32 is a cleaner file system compared to NTFS? I can't wait to hear the explanation on that one.

    Simpler, yes, cleaner...<waiting>
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  2. #12
    AO BOFH: Luser Abuser BModeratorFH gore's Avatar
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    Didn't know NTFS was so hard to read from another OS considering I do it almost every day. Laptop has XP and SUSE dual booting. I've yet to have a problem.
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  3. #13
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    Alright, considering the fact that gore just completely butt-****ed me, I obviously need to explain it. *sigh* It's hard enough getting up to 50 positive antipoints without gore just showing up and ass-ramming me. I think this is the third time he's done this to me at this point...
    Also, you waste of oxygen, NTFS is not hard to read from. It's hard to WRITE TO. I don't give a flying crap if I can read it, because I want to *fix it*.

    NTFS is faster and will experience less performance degradation from fragmenting. This is true.
    NTFS is also a hell of a lot dirtier. It will leave pieces of data everywhere on the ****ing drive, making it really friggin' hard to truly erase something should you want to do that. This is especially, but not only, true when file system indexing is enabled.
    NTFS supports permissions.

    NTFS support for read-only exists in the Linux kernel. NTFS support for write exists in the Linux kernel, but you are only allowed to overwrite a file (so, same name) with a file of the exact same size.

    FAT32 is a slower, older filesystem which is limited in size and in use, since it doesn't have support for permissions, and it caps at some filesystem size (which is to me ridiculously high, but I never bought into the hype of a hard drive above 80gig). FAT32 will also suffer from more obvious performance loss when fragmentation occurs, which, for both filesystems, is one of those facts of life.
    FAT32 has good read/write support in the Linux kernel, and mounting/unmounting of drives is painless.


    Now, I have never considered Windows to be an OS that people will use on servers, but I think gore does, which is probably why he's so harsh and keen on permissions. On a workstation/desktop, you don't need the permissions. They're more of a hindrance (no, really. I spent 7 hours just yesterday figuring out a problem which turned out, once I finally got back to a Windows GUI, to be due to "Everyone" not having full control and three oddly-named users (numbers and dashes) having some other sets of rights, one of which was Full Control.), and if you have an anti-virus and a firewall, and you're not stupid, you're safe.

    Fragmentation happens on both, and excessive fragmentation on the NTFS system will eventually cause a user to meet a "NTLDR not found" error on system boot up (I swear. It's written in a Microsoft tech note that I read yesterday). Also, I think you need 25% free space to defragment an NTFS partition, and I don't think you need that much for FAT32 (but I don't know for sure).

    So what sells FAT32 for me? Honestly, based solely on the fact that right now, I can't write to NTFS, that's enough of a problem to give the other FS the winning hand. As soon as NTFS write support is enabled, however, you'll see me sing a different song...
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  4. #14
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    Gentlemen, please!

    What have we descended to?.............the mere fact that you may think someone technically incorrect IS NOT grounds to give them negative points...............use your fingers and post him wrong?

    Thank you
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  5. #15
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    Well I have to disagree with this

    On a workstation/desktop, you don't need the permissions.
    We have workstations that need permissions due to the nature of the users job. We do not anyone but that specific user to have access to anything on that machine.

    Removing the everyone group is really not a problem if you apply the proper permissions to replace, such as administrator, system, domain admins, user etc

    Also by removing the everyone account ...you can slow up worms from reading, accessing data on these machines..as they will use the infected user\machines rights to propagate....or the everyone group.

    Also some machines have shared colour printers that we do not want all users to have access to....so we use permissions for those

    If the machine is properly locked down...they cannot access...and it will show up in the security log.

    By default MS will add certain groups to workstations and create certain shares.....I tend to Tweak as needed.

    I also have some shares on my machine that I do not want users writting to, or deleting contents. They are for a specific group... to read only... which requires that I set permissions on what they can and cannot do in these shares.

    Not sure what kinda enviroment you work in...but user permissions on workstations are used here and at a coupla of my other sites.

    Maybe I am missing something?

    MLF

    Edit> this article seems appropriate

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895...05dtx1k0000599

    also the NSA had a white paper out years ago about locking down servers and WS by removing the everyone group......not sure if they have an updated one
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  6. #16
    AO BOFH: Luser Abuser BModeratorFH gore's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by nihil
    Gentlemen, please!

    What have we descended to?.............the mere fact that you may think someone technically incorrect IS NOT grounds to give them negative points...............use your fingers and post him wrong?

    Thank you
    Me and two other people waited for his little reply. He never did. I neg him, and boom, he runs in here like I smacjed his ass with an ore. I should neg him again for bitching about me negging him. Anyone would have done it if I had made a thread about it, and when I joined here it was suicide.

    Mohaughn, Hogfly, and me replied asking WTF he was talking about. And I might point out, HE DIDN'T EVEN ANSWER THE QUESTION. He posted what appears to be a copy and paste of some "File systems in Windows for drooling morons" and posted it here.

    So again, HOW IN THE HELL is Fat32 better than NTFS? You post bullshit and it's damn near never right. And after I post this I'm disecting your post.
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  7. #17
    AO BOFH: Luser Abuser BModeratorFH gore's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by Trevoke
    Alright, considering the fact that gore just completely butt-****ed me, I obviously need to explain it.


    Don't worry, you have more coming, I'm not putting up with another AP bitch fest because you don't know what you're talking about cowboy.


    *sigh* It's hard enough getting up to 50 positive antipoints without gore just showing up and ass-ramming me. I think this is the third time he's done this to me at this point...
    WTF are you phishing for pitty or trying to get me in trouble? Are you stupid?

    Also, you waste of oxygen, NTFS is not hard to read from. It's hard to WRITE TO. I don't give a flying crap if I can read it, because I want to *fix it*.
    I'm a waste of oxygen?

    NTFS is faster and will experience less performance degradation from fragmenting. This is true.
    NTFS is also a hell of a lot dirtier. It will leave pieces of data everywhere on the ****ing drive, making it really friggin' hard to truly erase something should you want to do that. This is especially, but not only, true when file system indexing is enabled.
    NTFS supports permissions.
    So why is Fat32 better as you said?



    NTFS support for read-only exists in the Linux kernel. NTFS support for write exists in the Linux kernel, but you are only allowed to overwrite a file (so, same name) with a file of the exact same size.
    ..... Wow Fat32 is way better now....


    FAT32 is a slower, older filesystem which is limited in size and in use, since it doesn't have support for permissions, and it caps at some filesystem size (which is to me ridiculously high, but I never bought into the hype of a hard drive above 80gig). FAT32 will also suffer from more obvious performance loss when fragmentation occurs, which, for both filesystems, is one of those facts of life.
    FAT32 has good read/write support in the Linux kernel, and mounting/unmounting of drives is painless.
    Sooooo....?


    Now, I have never considered Windows to be an OS that people will use on servers, but I think gore does, which is probably why he's so harsh and keen on permissions.

    I so can't wait for Catch to see this. And this next part is in caps so it stands out:


    ATTENTION AO, I'M BEING SINGLED OUT FOR STANDING UP FOR WINDOWS AGAIN. REMEMBER THIS THE NEXT TIME I CRACK A JOKE AND YOU, OR THAT SLUT SDK, START WHINING, THINK OF THIS THREAD RIGHT HERE DICKS.



    On a workstation/desktop, you don't need the permissions.
    You're right how would a virus spread if it had to have permission??? Poor virii writers having to put in extra effort, awwwwwww.


    They're more of a hindrance (no, really. I spent 7 hours just yesterday figuring out a problem which turned out, once I finally got back to a Windows GUI, to be due to "Everyone" not having full control and three oddly-named users (numbers and dashes) having some other sets of rights, one of which was Full Control.),
    How many hours? You wear velcro on your shoes don't you?


    and if you have an anti-virus and a firewall, and you're not stupid, you're safe.
    Yup, no way in hell some deviant could break in when you have THAT in the way...

    Fragmentation happens on both, and excessive fragmentation on the NTFS system will eventually cause a user to meet a "NTLDR not found" error on system boot up (I swear. It's written in a Microsoft tech note that I read yesterday).
    =O REALLY???????


    Also, I think you need 25% free space to defragment an NTFS partition, and I don't think you need that much for FAT32 (but I don't know for sure).
    As usual you're full of ****. NTFS = 15 % Even with less it runs fine.


    So what sells FAT32 for me?
    A lighter and some crack?



    Honestly, based solely on the fact that right now, I can't write to NTFS, that's enough of a problem to give the other FS the winning hand. As soon as NTFS write support is enabled, however, you'll see me sing a different song...
    So Clay Aiken, have you ever thought of using NFS or Samba? Use the network to override the problems of File System support by making all of them not matter?
    Kill the lights, let the candles burn behind the pumpkins’ mischievous grins, and let the skeletons dance. For one thing is certain, The Misfits have returned and once again everyday is Halloween.The Misfits FreeBSD
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  8. #18
    In And Above Man Black Cluster's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by mohaughn
    Please explain why it is that you think fat32 is a better filesystem than NTFS. What makes NTFS dirty? I think you have had your head up a penguins ass for far to long..
    It is my own belief, that everything is strong at something, and actually create for that thing, and weak or has a shortage in another aspect. I think, wec an't say FAT32 is better than NTFS or vise versa.

    In a nut shell:

    NTFS is cool when, folder and file level security is sought! Ideal for file sharing and other permissions.

    FAT32: Is ideal for dual booting! require less space!

    here is a link for full comparison!
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...arison&spell=1

    My 0.02$

    Cheers
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  9. #19
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    morganlefay : you are entirely right. Mea Culpa. My analysis of the filesystem should never have had the word "workstation" in it. This thread is based on two guys who want to make a Flash USB key work under Linux, and that is why FAT32 is better than NTFS. In a purely Windows environment, where no one has any desire to use Linux to solve a problem, then by all means, use NTFS. It's better, faster and stronger. But it sucks balls when you're using it around Linux. That's all of my point, and I have sinned by ignorance : I am used to writing on a Linux-users-only forum, where it's implied that it's "around Linux". Again, in a Windows-only context, NTFS rocks.

    Gore : I don't have a subscription to this thread. I usually rely on the "Active threads" on the AO homepage to show me what's active, hence why I didn't come back to this one : it doesn't show as active! I'm terribly sorry I made you wait so long for such an inadequate answer.

    I can't tell whether you're sarcastic or not, so :

    =O REALLY???????
    Yeah, really. Excessive fragmentation of the root directory can cause NTLDR to not be found while booting Windows.

    So Clay Aiken, have you ever thought of using NFS or Samba? Use the network to override the problems of File System support by making all of them not matter?
    I'm gonna have to go look up who Clay Aiken is, but here's a sentence in my original post (unedited, although by looking at it I obviously made an error, it should say "write", not read!)

    The only way to maybe bridge that would be to mount the NTFS flash drive as a NFS somewhere to let you read it.
    So, you see, I *did* think about it!

    Velcro on my shoes? No, sandals don't have velcro. Sometimes my feet hurt for most of the day, but I realized recently it was because I'd put the sandals on the wrong feet! ololoomgroxxorz.
    This is off-topic : The problem was originally NTLDR not found. The recovery console would not let me write to the root directory, though we could write to $systemroot$, which was odd. We tried several things, some went fast, like trying to reinstall a MBR and boot sector, some took a lot longer, like using the "automated repair utility" on the Win2k folder. For some reason, that utility took a pretty long time to complete, so that took a lot of time, after changing variables one by one and trying to get write access to the root directory. Finally, took the computer home, because at home, I actually have spare boxes I can use, installed Win2k on a spare hard drive, then looked at the hard drives from that working installation. Lo and behold, there were some users in there which had Full Permissions, while Everyone didn't. I successfully recopied NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM, ARCSETUP and ARCLOADER (the files that were missing, yes, the original install is on a SCSI drive), but now it's getting hung at the loading of the driver after agp440.sys. And yes, there is *also* a tech note for agp440.sys, and no, it did not solve the problem, either. If you happen to have a solution, I'll be quite happy to erect an altar in your honor.

    And thank you for correcting me, I could not find anywhere if it was 25 or 15% needed. I'm also relieved to know that I was wrong, as 25% would truly have been major suckage.


    [edit: Okay, found out who Clay Aiken is. I should be insulted, right? I can't care enough, sorry.]

    [edit2 : Ooh jeez! I just found out why it didn't show as active, I must have posted enough to unlock the "configure front page" setting, and this forum was not displayed! Sooo sorry!]
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  10. #20
    AO BOFH: Luser Abuser BModeratorFH gore's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by Trevoke
    morganlefay : you are entirely right. Mea Culpa. My analysis of the filesystem should never have had the word "workstation" in it. This thread is based on two guys who want to make a Flash USB key work under Linux, and that is why FAT32 is better than NTFS. In a purely Windows environment, where no one has any desire to use Linux to solve a problem, then by all means, use NTFS. It's better, faster and stronger. But it sucks balls when you're using it around Linux. That's all of my point, and I have sinned by ignorance : I am used to writing on a Linux-users-only forum, where it's implied that it's "around Linux". Again, in a Windows-only context, NTFS rocks.


    So you're saying Useability is more important than security?


    Gore : I don't have a subscription to this thread. I usually rely on the "Active threads" on the AO homepage to show me what's active, hence why I didn't come back to this one : it doesn't show as active! I'm terribly sorry I made you wait so long for such an inadequate answer.
    Click on post reply instead of the quick reply thing.


    I can't tell whether you're sarcastic or not, so :
    I'm typing, I'm sarcastic.


    Yeah, really. Excessive fragmentation of the root directory can cause NTLDR to not be found while booting Windows.
    Yea, the "shock" face was meant to be a smart ass comment without saying anything.


    I'm gonna have to go look up who Clay Aiken is, but here's a sentence in my original post (unedited, although by looking at it I obviously made an error, it should say "write", not read!)
    I do what I can.



    So, you see, I *did* think about it!
    Scarey.

    Velcro on my shoes? No, sandals don't have velcro. Sometimes my feet hurt for most of the day, but I realized recently it was because I'd put the sandals on the wrong feet! ololoomgroxxorz.
    You wear dyed shirts huh?


    Finally, took the computer home, because at home, I actually have spare boxes I can use, installed Win2k on a spare hard drive, then looked at the hard drives from that working installation. Lo and behold, there were some users in there which had Full Permissions, while Everyone didn't.
    Wow so some did but everyone didn't ?



    I successfully recopied NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM, ARCSETUP and ARCLOADER (the files that were missing, yes, the original install is on a SCSI drive), but now it's getting hung at the loading of the driver after agp440.sys. And yes, there is *also* a tech note for agp440.sys, and no, it did not solve the problem, either. If you happen to have a solution, I'll be quite happy to erect an altar in your honor.
    You get an urge / erection from me and I'm leaving.

    And thank you for correcting me,
    Don't mention it. It's easy.


    I could not find anywhere if it was 25 or 15% needed. I'm also relieved to know that I was wrong, as 25% would truly have been major suckage.
    The one machine I have with XP on it which dual boots SUSE on my laptop has less HD space than the other and has lots of games so I know because I've seen the message.


    [edit: Okay, found out who Clay Aiken is. I should be insulted, right? I can't care enough, sorry.]
    I don't know if you should but I don't really care if you are.

    [edit2 : Ooh jeez! I just found out why it didn't show as active, I must have posted enough to unlock the "configure front page" setting, and this forum was not displayed! Sooo sorry!]
    Dun Dun Dun another one finds out the truth. Dun Dun Dun.... I'm tired as ****.
    Kill the lights, let the candles burn behind the pumpkins’ mischievous grins, and let the skeletons dance. For one thing is certain, The Misfits have returned and once again everyday is Halloween.The Misfits FreeBSD
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