Kazaa owners given ten days to conform or die - Page 4
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Thread: Kazaa owners given ten days to conform or die

  1. #31
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    Originally posted here by Egaladeist
    DocSkurlock...all I can say is you've got to be very young...because let me fill you in...back in my day groups went on tour to promote and sell their singles and albums...the money they made was in sales NOT concerts...that was the purpose of going on the road...sell your record..

    now...it's the reverse...they make practically no money off of sales and concerts are their big winfall...

    and this is, in part, due to piracy...piracy is not solely responsible...but it's played a major role.

    As for the last part of your statement....let's look at the logic...should I tell my daughters that if they don't like the brown and purple crayons that they can steal the box...after all, their goal is to get the crayons they like, not pay for the ones they don't like.

    You'll be a good father one day with that kind of logic to back you up :roll-eyes:

    Eg
    I am NOT very young. I refuse to pay 20 bucks for a cd with one crappy song I "MAY" like. In case you haven't figured it out, a lot of people that download songs, even by paying for them, generally end up buying the cd anyway. In the very first part of my post, I admitted to using iTunes to pay for songs and download them. That's not piracy, is it? Yes, I admitted to using napster and kazaa and winmx. Yes, I used them to download songs, however, I mostly used them to download obscure songs, such as David Alan Coe's XXX songs. Those are hysterical and you can't find them at Best Buy, that's for sure.


    Just so you know, the reason why they aren't making money is NOT because of piracy. It's because recording labels are charging more and more and giving less in royalties and then blaming it on piracy. Read the first part of this post. PIRATES BUY CD'S AFTER DOWNLOADING A FEW SONGS! Sorry for caps, but I wanted to drive that point home. You say it's partly due to piracy. You are correct, sort of. It's due to piracy because the labels are blaming it on piracy, when really it's because a 25 cent cd costs the average consumer 15 bucks or more. Heaven forbid it's a boxed set. Since you know so much, why don't you tell me how much the average artist makes off of a cd? They make diddly squat.




    Now, onto your comment about the crayons. First of all, you have no idea how good a parent I'd be. Secondly, although I support piracy, to an extent, I do not advocate it. I am not in IRC with 80,000 songs and using up all my bandwidth downloading and uploading. I BUY my songs, one at a time generally, on iTunes and then burn them when I get enough to fill a disc. Yes, I have bought whole albums and loved them. Thank you for labelling me as well.

    To clarify: I support some piracy, yes. If it's so obscure that the only place you can find it is on the net, then by all means. However, if you can find a paid service to get it, you can generally get it in a decent format and not have to worry about viruses or malware. I really don't like to buy cd's (sony rootkit for instance?) and so I use a legal service to get my music. I think you need to focus on someone that is actually doing what I'm not. I am not your enemy. The enemy is the RIAA and the MPAA. Focus on them.
    I\'m Doc, fear me because..........well I don\'t know, but fear me anyway.

  2. #32
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    Hi DocSkurlock,
    I am NOT very young. I refuse to pay 20 bucks for a cd with one crappy song I "MAY" like.
    No one says you have to buy anything...if you don't like the shoes because it has a red stripe...then you don't buy them...you don't tear off the red stripe and steal the shoes.
    Just so you know, the reason why they aren't making money is NOT because of piracy. It's because recording labels are charging more and more and giving less in royalties and then blaming it on piracy.
    Sorry...wrong! The percentage to the artist is like the percentage in a book deal...it's ALWAYS been low...if you write your own songs then that percentage goes up as you also get the writer's percentage...
    there seems to be a running theme here that today groups get less percentage than 30 years ago...AHEM!!! they get more! It used to be if you didn't have a song on the top 40 or a book in the NY Times best sellers list, you were a part-timer...like the old hockey players ALL HAD JOBS ON THE SIDE...you didn't make the hordes of cash authors, writers, musicians, and sports personalities do now.
    Secondly, although I support piracy, to an extent, I do not advocate it.
    You don't see the hypocrisy in that statement...yes, you do advocate it.
    I think you need to focus on someone that is actually doing what I'm not. I am not your enemy.
    I'm not focusing on you, but your comments...you may be a really nice guy, I have no way of knowing either way...but if you don't want to have your comments critiqued then either keep them to yourself or put a disclaimer in your posts.

    Eg

  3. #33
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    Do you know what advocate means? Seriously. From http://www.answers.com/topic/advocate

    Advocate means: To speak, plead, or argue in favor of. Now. I said support, at times. I do not argue it's legality. I do not speak favorably of it. Piracy IS illegal. Does it bother me if people download songs illegally? No. It does not. That is my personal opinion. Am I forcing that opinion on you? No. I am not. If you find me contradictory, so be it. Please, drop the issue and lets get back to the issue at hand. That being that kazaa has to clean up it's act, which we all know has been a long time coming.

    In regards to the shoes. Did I not say that I buy one song with iTunes? Are you just not reading that part? I don't mind criticque, but come on. Read my whole post before doing so.
    I\'m Doc, fear me because..........well I don\'t know, but fear me anyway.

  4. #34
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    Hmmm,

    I mostly used them to download obscure songs, such as David Alan Coe's XXX songs. Those are hysterical and you can't find them at Best Buy, that's for sure.
    You didn't try very hard then did you? Just type David Allan Coe into Google and his official website is top of the page:

    http://www.officialdavidallancoe.com/

    They would have been only too happy to supply you with the merchandise you wanted, only legitimately.

    In that instance you most certainly ripped-off a small independent artist. In fact he even complains about people ripping him off on his site.

    Since you know so much, why don't you tell me how much the average artist makes off of a cd? They make diddly squat.
    There is no such thing as an average artist. Their signing agreements and recording contracts are individual. Each one has an artist's account with the recording company, rather like the clients' account at a lawyers. How they get paid depends on the terms of the agreement. Typically, top artists get very little from sales but have a large guaranteed income. Less well known artists are not so lucky until they hit the big time.

    As for 12 year old girls................there are far worse things than the RIAA stalking the internet, and she did have over 3,000 items she was trading. The RIAA did her a favour, her parents needed a damned good slap.

    If you cannot do someone any good: don't do them any harm....
    As long as you did this to one of these, the least of my little ones............you did it unto Me.
    What profiteth a man if he gains the entire World at the expense of his immortal soul?

  5. #35
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    Hi DocSkurlock,

    Advocate means: To speak, plead, or argue in favor of
    Exactly.

    It also means to defend the actions of...to which you have attempted...as a lawyer actively defends the actions of a client.

    You cannot say you ' support ' piracy and then claim you are not advocating it...you can't have it both ways...either you support it or you are against it...or...you are neutral.

    It seems to me that you are neutral...that you both agree and disagree with it.

    Which...if you had read my early posts on the first page...is where I sit. However, I explained my reasons and my reasons seem different than yours.

    As nihil also pointed out...piracy/copying actually helps new unknown artists find a market...in this way it helps the artist
    ...it however does nothing for well-known established artists who have nothing to gain from it.

    Read my whole post before doing so
    I am...the question is: are you?

    Eg


    Edit: and as nihil just pointed out...and very correctly I might add...if you want to help new or unknown artists most now have websites where you can buy their CD's from...which were not available in our day.



  6. #36
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    Ok. For the last time. I used those programs YEARS ago. I very seriously doubt his site had all of that up. If you want to condemn for PAST transgresions so be it. Just so you know, I have purchased David Alan Coe cd's. Multiple times! I suggest that we stop this thread hijack and go back to the basis of the discussion. IE, kazaa users need to get their crap together.

    Have I not said, in the past posts, that I now buy songs? What are you not getting? I have atoned for my past transgressions. Simply because I support certain acts of piracy, which is not the same as advocating, I might add, does not mean I am a pirate. I was dumb in my early days of internet usage, but no more. Also, please don't get all high and mighty with me. As someone pointed out earlier, not one person here can say they haven't downloaded something off of an ftp site at one point or another.
    I\'m Doc, fear me because..........well I don\'t know, but fear me anyway.

  7. #37
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    Hi DocSkurlock,
    not one person here can say they haven't downloaded something off of an ftp site at one point or another.
    Actually...I haven't so there goes that theory.

    And no one is condemning you personally for anything...past or present...you just assume we are because we're having a discussion and are on opposite sides of it...no one is attacking you...we are attacking the issue...

    that is, after all, the whole basis of a ' discussion '.

    there can be no ' discussion ' without opposing veiws.

    I'm not focusing on you, but your comments...you may be a really nice guy, I have no way of knowing either way
    You should read the posts...I've already said this is not about you personally.

    Eg

  8. #38
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    Very well. I concede the point. Now, I honestly gotta say, that kazaa is the devil. It should burn in the fiery depths of hell. That's just my personal opinion.

    I still think the RIAA and the MPAA overreact big time on this issue.
    I\'m Doc, fear me because..........well I don\'t know, but fear me anyway.

  9. #39
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    What has not been mentioned so far is the issue of product that is no longer available on the market. Record labels take product off their catalogues and it is no longer possible to obtain a particular performance by a particular artist.

    In the software and games arena this is akin to "abandonware"

    Whilst the legal copyright still exists, the holder is no longer selling the product, and no longer gaining revenue from it (except for the artist, through the Performing Rights Society, for commercial and public performances).

    In this situation, whilst it is still technically unlawful to swap the copyright material, my personal view is that it is morally acceptable. After all you could obtain a second user copy and neither the artist, nor the record label would make a cent out of the transaction?

    I suspect that no action would be taken, as the courts over here would demand to see "losses". I guess they would get 0.01 in compensation and you would be awarded costs. Our courts take a very dim view of "frivolous litigation"

    I strongly suspect that the same applies to promotional material, as its price was 0.00...........it was given away?

    If you cannot do someone any good: don't do them any harm....
    As long as you did this to one of these, the least of my little ones............you did it unto Me.
    What profiteth a man if he gains the entire World at the expense of his immortal soul?

  10. #40
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    I do believe you're correct nihil. However, in the US, there is a certain period of time that the labels/artist has "control" over the "art." It's usually 20 years (I believe, I'm most certainly not a copyright attorney). That's why things that were not availabl 20 years ago, are now becoming available today. Songs that were "owned" by one label, are selling them to another and letting "artists" sing them, etc. As long as it's copywrited, it's owned by "someone" and that someone can do whatever they want with it. After the copywrite has expired, it's not necessarily open territory, but certain laws no longer apply to it, I think. Again, I'm not a copywrite attorney.
    I\'m Doc, fear me because..........well I don\'t know, but fear me anyway.

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