2003 IRS Data - Who Pays?
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 25

Thread: 2003 IRS Data - Who Pays?

  1. #1
    Senior Member OverdueSpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    556

    Angry 2003 IRS Data - Who Pays?

    Tax Time is here - What percentage will you pay?

    Yeah! Yeah! I know that this is off the Limbaugh website. However, the information does appear to be correct accroding to what the IRS reported for FY 2003. I find this to be the most enlightening phrase in the entire article: "The top 50% were those individuals or couples filing jointly who earned $29,019 and up in 2003." In case you missed it - you are among the top 50% of wage earners (By default that means you are rich right?) if you earn over $29,000 a year after your income has been combined with your spouses. That's a paltry $14,500 per tax payer if filing jointly. Since we know that the majority of the lower 50% of wage earners will never get off their duff and earn a proper living, I have to gravitate towards Boortz on this one and advocate a complete scrapping of our current tax system.

    Think of it this way: less than 3-1/2 dollars out of every $100 paid in income taxes in the United States is paid by someone in the bottom 50% of wage earners. Are the top half millionaires? Noooo, more like "thousandaires." The top 50% were those individuals or couples filing jointly who earned $29,019 and up in 2003. (The top 1% earned $295,495-plus.) Americans who want to are continuing to improve their lives, and those who don't want to, aren't. Here are the wage earners in each category and the percentages they pay:
    The top 1% pay over a third, 34.27% of all income taxes. (Up from 2003: 33.71%) The top 5% pay 54.36% of all income taxes (Up from 2002: 53.80%). The top 10% pay 65.84% (Up from 2002: 65.73%). The top 25% pay 83.88% (Down from 2002: 83.90%). The top 50% pay 96.54% (Up from 2002: 96.50%). The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.46% of all income taxes (Down from 2002: 3.50%). The top 1% is paying nearly ten times the federal income taxes than the bottom 50%! And who earns what? The top 1% earns 16.77% of all income (2002: 16.12%). The top 5% earns 31.18% of all the income (2002: 30.55%). The top 10% earns 42.36% of all the income (2002: 41.77%); the top 25% earns 64.86% of all the income (2002: 64.37%) , and the top 50% earns 86.01% (2002: 85.77%) of all the income.
    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/menu/cy2003.guest.html
    The mentally handicaped are persecuted in this great country, and I say rightfully so! These people are NUTS!!!!

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    central il
    Posts
    1,779
    I look at yor numbers and think why the hell are w etaxing a couple taht only makes a combined 29k a year. the top 1% is taxed at one of the lowest rates in us history and it is hurting us as a country (at one point last century the top 1% where taxed at 90% of there income...50% of ther income was the norme untill the 80's) The wealthy of this country are just not asked to pull their eight any more and its hurting our infrustructure...the middle class is being taxed dispropurtinatly high..this is not the fault of the poor. If this keeps up in a few decades there will be no more middle class, just the very rich and the poor.


    If you think republicans will sovle this then why are they targeting the few tax breakes that help the middle class? (the morgatge deduction, property tax deduction, and the child care deductions)
    Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Yes
    Posts
    4,429
    1% of the population make 16% of all the money being made in the US in a year, or 1.2 million people have a combined income of a little over $1,000,000,000,000 - which is roughly a million bucks per person, of which they give around $250,000 to the state, which leaves them with an income of $750,000 per year... That's a total income tax of around $250,000,000,000,000, roughly a third of the total income tax.

    The problem is that you can't apply the same math to the middle income earners, because you don't have individual data (at least not from Limbaugh's link).

    The top 50% earn 86% of all the income, or $5,400,000,000,000 - which is roughly $100,000 per person. Of that $100,000, they give an average of $12,500 to the state, leaving them with around $87,500.

    Nowwww....

    The bottom 50% earn 13% of all the income, or $620,000,000,000, which is roughly $15,000 per person. And of that $15,000, they still give to the state!

    You pick:
    - Earning $1,000,000 per year and keeping $750,000
    - Earning $100,000 per year and keeping $87,500
    - Earning $15,000 per year and keeping even less than that <-- and these are the ones Limbaugh is attacking, and blaming for not giving enough? Way to go...

  4. #4
    Senior Member OverdueSpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    556
    Great Posts guys! You bring up some very valid points.

    Now I looked at this years 2005 1040 tax form. (Just as a point of reference)

    The bottom 50% earn 13% of all the income, or $620,000,000,000, which is roughly $15,000 per person. And of that $15,000, they still give to the state!
    NEG - The problem here is that a person making $15,000 a year only has a tax burden of about $1,500, or 10% of their income, which is prior to any deductions, child care credits (amount increased per child), or earned income credits. (This equates to about $7.50/hour, assuming a 40 hour work week.) And after deductions we all know that anyone making $15,000 a year will most likely receive a sizeable income tax refund, which will normally far exceed any taxes paid on that income. (Typical exceptions being teenage workers without families to support) I can't speak for Limbaughs opinions because I do not listen to his show unless I happen to go out to lunch and already have the radio station in question dialed in. In my opinion though, it's not a matter of the lower income earners not giving enough of the money that they have earned, rather it's a matter of the low income earner not putting forth enough effort to improve their situation. Granted that their will be situations where circumstances dictate an individual's inability to rise out of poverty, but for the most part there are plenty of opportunities provided by government programs to improve ones lot in life. Thus the excuses start to run slim. Why is it that when I ask someone that is complaining about not receiving enough money or entitlements from the government "So what are you doing to help yourself get out of your situation?" I am verbally berated as being an, insensitive, uncaring, racist; when all I wanted to do was find out what their status is so that I might could offer some applicable advice on how to make oneself successful? And even after I explain myself the majority walk off with what I would term as their perceived "justified indignation". I really don't know the answer. All I know is that I could never be satisfied with making around 7.50/hour.

    at one point last century the top 1% where taxed at 90% of there income...
    BBallad - I have to disagree with taxing the top 1% at a 90% rate on many, many levels. I have to say that the most basic level come with punishing people that are over achievers in life. Taking from the rich and giving to the poor is a Robin Hood Fairy Tale where the government was basically exhorting money from all citizens in the form of excessive taxes. This should not and does not reflect todays society. Yes the government is stealing from the rich, but generally the government is not stealing from the poor. I refuse to label someone as "evil" just because they are successful or were born into wealth. Famous Amous was a black man who started out in the ghetto, but made a fortune making and marketing cookies. Is Famous Amous now to be considered a one of the money grubbing, stingy, rich people? People can envy those more fortunate than themselves all day long. But let's face it, without all of those rich people creating jobs for thousands at a time who will? Oh yeah, the crack dealer on the corner who is pulling an unemployment check will hire you to work in his new Meth lab venture. (Just a little jibe there, don't take it personal my friend)

    I do have to agree with you on one point BBallad! The Republicans do not have a solution to our tax problems, thus my mention of the Fair Tax Plan endorsed by Neal Boortz. I have not encounterdd a better plan for tax reform.
    The mentally handicaped are persecuted in this great country, and I say rightfully so! These people are NUTS!!!!

  5. #5
    The ******* Shadow dalek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,564
    How many of those "so called rich" have offshore tax havens, that are not taken into account when these figures are released.........IMO the corporate sector should be made to make up for any tax shortfalls,espescailly in the depressed areas (middle/low income)....there is really no such thing as the middle class anymore, it's more like the "working Poor" and then the "poor" and then the "rich".


    Speaking from a Canadians standpoint, I see far too many loopholes for the rich to exploit (expensive lawyers pay for themselves over a few years), also while you are paying for your troops to fight in Iraq through your taxes, how much of that is kicked back to Haliburton (Cheney) and the other so called contractors, who were drooling when Bush opened Iraq up to reconstruction.

    As well you have to consider in today's society it is not uncommon to find both spouses working which drives the average houshold numbers up further, which of course skews the numbers so it looks like there are less poor households, so they can set the mean's test for below the average income to something ridicolous like $20,000 a year, when in fact the "working poor" (used to be the middle class) are having their benefits reduced, medical premiums increased, inflation increase, cost of living increases, fuel increases, you name it.....salaries have basically stagnated while the CEO's and corporate honchos run away with the money (Enron), so what a dollar was worth 10yrs ago as far as spending power is more like 0.75 cents today, so all the taxes in the world cannot make up for that.To top that off, how far has minimum wage increased over the past few years.

    The government stealing from the rich......hah what a joke, the government is the rich, when was the last time an elected leader of any party had an income of $25,000 or less???? these cronies will look after themselves as well as their buddies, they are preparing themselves for life after politics, building that nest egg so while they retire on a luxurious pension (taxpayer supported), they can get richer.

    Also your remark about a person making $15,000 only has a tax burden of maybe $1500.00 is insulting, you try to live on $15,000 less expenses a year and see how you like it.

    I really don't know the answer. All I know is that I could never be satisfied with making around 7.50/hour.
    That's you, some people have no choice, if you think that's not true then go out and ask the working poor, have you not read about some single parents working maybe 2 or 3 part time jobs to make ends meet.(some even have diplomas, true check it out).

    Me, I don't begrudge someone like Bill Gates being able to capitlize and rake in 46Billion a year, and I am sure his tax bill is considerable (if he reports it all), but really how do you spend 46 Billion in a year, now Bill does have a foundation and IMO is doing great at being a philanthropist, but the point is their are a lot of super rich who can readily afford to pay more in taxes, thus lifting some of the burden from the "working poor" who in turn will have more disposable income to spend in the F**cking stores, which in turn will make Wallmart that much richer, it's simple economics, if you continue to take from those who can least afford it, at some point they stop buying, and if this happens the only people who will be able to shop at WallMart will be Bill Gates, and wouldn't that look cute.

    Your government and ours need to reward the majority of workers by lightening their tax loads, this in turn will encourage spending which in turn creates jobs which in turn generates more taxes (see the picture here), by squeezing us, it makes it harder to buy that big ticket item (Cars), then before you know it, the big three start laying off workers again, no workers, no taxes, no taxes, increase the income tax for those that still have jobs.

    "The freedoms won by Americans in 1776 were lost in the revolution of 1913," wrote Frank Chodorov. Indeed, a man's home used to be his castle. The income tax, however, gave the government the keys to every door and the sole right to change the locks.

    Today the American people are no longer the master and the government has ceased to be the servant. How could this be? The Revolution fought in the name of the inherent natural rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness promised to enthrone the gains of individualism. Instead, federal taxation bribes the States and individuals to serve the interests of ever-greater submission to the centralized will.

    How did tax slavery come to the land of the free?
    Origin of Income Tax
    PC Registered user # 2,336,789,457...

    "When the water reaches the upper level, follow the rats."
    Claude Swanson

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    central il
    Posts
    1,779
    OverdueSpy: the 90% was during wwII...back when the rich felt a sense of responsbility and sacrifieced for the good of the country...but before that is was at or over 50% for most of the history of this country. It isn't untill the regan years that we removed any sense of civil respnsability from the wealthy of this country.
    Who is more trustworthy then all of the gurus or Buddha’s?

  7. #7
    Senior Member OverdueSpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    556
    You're almost there Dalek!!!! Remember though, I don't like our current tax system either.

    The government stealing from the rich......hah what a joke, the government is the rich, when was the last time an elected leader of any party had an income of $25,000 or less???? these cronies will look after themselves as well as their buddies, they are preparing themselves for life after politics, building that nest egg so while they retire on a luxurious pension (taxpayer supported), they can get richer.
    Very True! which is why I am a firm believer that everyone should pay the same amount of tax on every dollar they spend. From looking at this Fair Tax Plan it appears that the wealthy would actually end up paying significantly more in taxes because their coporations would be responsible for paying taxes on goods sold. The wealthy would also be paying more in taxes for the "luxury" items they purchase to support their daily lifestyles. The wealthy would not have any tax shelters or deductions because there would not be an IRS. Everyone would be able to take home almost all of their paycheck and spend or save as they saw fit.

    Also your remark about a person making $15,000 only has a tax burden of maybe $1500.00 is insulting, you try to live on $15,000 less expenses a year and see how you like it.

    That's you, some people have no choice, if you think that's not true then go out and ask the working poor, have you not read about some single parents working maybe 2 or 3 part time jobs to make ends meet.(some even have diplomas, true check it out).
    The $1,500 tax burden for a person making $15,000 came right out of the instruction manual for the 2005 - 1040 tax form. I never said that there would not be exceptions to people having no choice. Such as mentally handicapped, people missing limbs, debilitating accidents, and sometimes just plain ole bad luck. When I say that our individual current situations are primarilary products of decisions that we have made in our lives, I am speaking about the majority and not the exceptions. Almost everyone in the USA has the opportunity to succeed in this great country, whether most people make something productive out of their lives is almost completely up to individual choice. Yes there will be factors for or against any race, religion, sex, etc....My Point here is that there are many many people that have risen out of poverty ridden situations because they made the choice to better themselves.
    The mentally handicaped are persecuted in this great country, and I say rightfully so! These people are NUTS!!!!

  8. #8
    The ******* Shadow dalek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,564
    Almost everyone in the USA has the opportunity to succeed in this great country, whether most people make something productive out of their lives is almost completely up to individual choice. Yes there will be factors for or against any race, religion, sex, etc....My Point here is that there are many many people that have risen out of poverty ridden situations because they made the choice to better themselves.
    Yes that is the "Holy Grail" of any idealistic person(s), but the reality is: I own a large manufacturing company, and it is situated in Vermont, however the taxes here are prohibitive and the workforce are very militant (union)the wages are very high, the benefits payed out are getting higher, the employers contributions on behalf of the employee is large,hhhmmmm to rectify this I will close this site and move to Mexico, once there I can find a workforce that will willingly work for less then the US current minimum wage, also my tax options with the Mexican Government will be a lot less, the enviromental requirements no longer exist ergo no expenses there. No Medical expenses, no payment of Employment insurance or workers compensation payments on behalf of the employee.

    Sick days will be a thing of the past, can't work because your sick, well amigo, pack your bags and get because the hombre behind you wants to work.This scenario can be played out in just about any thirld world country......?

    The problems as I see it, is this society in North America has gotten lazy period, do you know why most kids coming out of High School or college won't take the minimum wage jobs, it's because of attitiude and how they have been raised, their expectations are way to high, nobody starts out at $20.00 an hour unless you have paid your dues and worked in the trenches, so what happens, we "import" workforces, why do you think the majority of people living in Southern California, are of a Hispanic background, it's the same in Canada with the Lebanese and East Indians, they send members of their families over to Canada, with some money to start out, a couple of Brothers both working their asses off at minimum wage, eventually they have enough to send over and bring their families over, once they come over they join the workforce at miminum wage, now you have a family of say 6 or 7 all bringing in minimum wages, say 6 for arguments sake, and they all work 40 hrs jobs at $7.50Hr... well 6x40x$7.50 = $1800.00 a week, that's not bad $1800.00x4 =$7200.00 a Month before taxes.......a couple of years at this and before you know it they own a couple of convenience stores and guess what, they hire the local High School kids at yep minimum wage.


    You need to keep the economy strong at home in order to fairly spread the pain of income taxes, wether it's the rich's portion or the working poor's portion, as long as you have graft and White Collar crime allowed to continue, then the rich will get richer and the poor will just die.

    Taxation is a game, that is played out by the rich to enlarge their holdings at the expense of the working class (Don't confuse me with Lenin here ) When the owner's of Wallmart gleefully go back to their shareholders and report megaprofits, or Exxon or any major corporation, some of the first things brought up at these boardmeetings are salaries and benefits, when the company does poorly whats the first thing to go......when the company does well, who is the last to benefit.....I don't begrudge those in the market to make a profit, but when I see the CEO of Enron scrambling and then they show his properties and other luxury items and then you read about how the employees (long time) got stiffed for their pensions, my blood boils....if the average joe could see that the government was sincere in bringing the major tax evaders to trial and throwing the books at them, then the underground blackmarket would slow down, the average joe would then get his civic duties in priority again and honestly pay his/her fair share of taxes, but as it is, it's like a game to see what you can get away with.......
    PC Registered user # 2,336,789,457...

    "When the water reaches the upper level, follow the rats."
    Claude Swanson

  9. #9
    AO Ancient: Team Leader
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    5,197
    Don't confuse me with Lenin here
    It's almost impossible not to......
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides

  10. #10
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    2,716
    "The rich" do not pay taxes, they collect taxes. the income
    tax was sold to the people on the promise that it would rob the
    Rockefellers, Carnegies etc and give to the people.

    Corporate income taxes are paid, in effect, by the people who
    work for them, the customers, or the widows and orphans
    whose pensions consist of corporate stocks and bonds.

    Lobbyists and congressmen take expensive trips and pay nothing.
    Unfortunately, the only reform proposals people want to hear would
    take all this money and power and give it to the other political
    party, that is, whichever one is out at the moment.

    Power corrupts.


    I am not a cynic though. The world can be made a better place,
    but not through politics. There is a legend in my family. I don't
    know if it is true. My grandfather Bernard W Green was a poor
    farmer in Georgia. In fact, he rented the land he farmed.
    When the government offered him money to destroy his
    crops in the 1930s, he (being an ignorant and stupid redneck)
    was suspicious and turned the money down, thus giving
    me a legacy of ignorance and stupidity of which I am
    quite proud.
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •