what happened?

[R0n1n]

I was reading the latest issue of Blacklisted 411 and someone had wrote in a letter asking about what happened to the community (as in the security community/hacking community) and it got me thinking, just what did happen?

In the old days people used to share info (ok everyone kept a little back I suspect, but for the most part we all shared), no one needed to get upload/download/posting points, it just kinda worked, you wanted to know something, make a post, yes some dick might flame you, but there seems to be more of that now then ever. I`m sure I don`t remember so many people never really answering questions and instead just pontificating. How many times does someone post a message saying "I want to hack!" which ok, is a dumb question, but the usual response tends to be "don`t ask that"," why would you be so stupid", rather then "you know what,heres some stuff to go try" it doesn`t need to be "heres how to take down amazon.com" it could be "heres how Windows used to be cracked into using null sessions (which still works in some places)" or something like that. We just seem to have lost our way a bit with all this, and I am talking about a more wider sense, not just antionline, but across the board, many folks seems to be engaged in a perpetual pissing contest, who will win? well probably no one.

Also, I never really had a good arguement about Commodore 64 v Sinclair spectrum, as who really gave a crap, as long as I could play uridium on my C64, and Starquake on a spectrum.

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the subject, at times antionline seems to be reminiscent of the days of old, everyone sharing info, but it seems to be part of an ever decreasing number.

[mnchur]

Due to the advent of the "internet age" and the drastically increased number of people on the internet things have changed. When I first got into computers things where very different. The internet was a much smaller place back then. When AOL went big and everybody started to see the usefulness of the net things took a downward spiral. Hacking for most people bacame "how many computers can I damage today with this new tool I downloaded". Alot of people in the scene became dissalutioned with how things were turning out. Because of this they began to hold back more and more from the "mainstream" community.
I must agree with you that the free flow of ideas is the corner stone to the hacking community. Unfourtuanly that is not what the majority of people who actually call themselves hackers are intrested in. They instead are after the dark and arcane art the media keeps hyping. They picture themselves as wizards of the digital age casting mystic spells and controling other peoples computers and lives for that matter. For the most part these types get into hacking then leave within a year because it is not fashionable anymore.
The real community has always been here. The information and ideas they are holding flow as freely as they ever have. You just have to look longer and harder to find real hacking community now.

[HTRegz]

Hey Hey,

Three things happened to change the free exchange of information in the security community...

1. Big Business
2. Law
3. People grew up...


1. Big Business

While I was using computers and the internet prior to it, 1996 was the first time I got into computers in a really geeky way.. and at times what you would now called a skiddie way... That was 10 years ago... It's not really that long... but in the grand spectrum of my life.. it is..

Anyways... 10 years ago security wasn't big business like it is today... People weren't making millions and billions of dollars... You found something you announced it... You didn't turn around and sell it to ImmunitySec or whoever else is buying these days...

Today people want to make a name for themselves... So if they find anything.. they take credit.. they don't share like they used to... Why do they do this... because if you have the name.. regardless of your knowledge you'll make money (Steve Gibson is a prime example of this)

2. Law

10 years ago... unless I used a computer to kill someone.. not much was going to happen to me.... there wasn't really any precedent and computer law wasn't exactly a big thing.... I remember telling a judge in 2000 that I was considering going into law and specializing in computers... He said that was prolly the smartest thing anyone could do because it would be a huge field in the future and no one was really getting into it... That's a different story now... but then again many things have changed...

I don't wanna share my information with you because I could be considered an accomplice and liable for someone elses actions with that information (We all know those text disclaimers are practically useless if ya wanna fight them)...

3. People Grew Up...

Now it's considered immature to be a skiddie (10 years ago that wasn't really the case)... Now it's considered immature to "want to hack'' previously that wasn't so... What's changed? The people that gave it movement have grown up and gotten jobs... They're now protecting against this underground that exists... an underground where it's every man/woman for themself and you are harming people not learning...

That's what it basically comes down to.... that's my opinion anyways... the times are changing.. it's a different type of people... 10 years ago I decided I wanted to spend my time on a PC and be an outcast... now everyone is on a PC... and wants to play jokes on their friends... It's cool to use computers....

Peace,
HT