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  1. #21
    ********** |ceWriterguy
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    JRUMJ - not hijacking your thread, it's just your question has been answered before I got back to the thread. I will tell you that in attending community college you're on the cutting edge of tech that's out - the big universities are slower to adapt to changes, and in this industry, those changes are incredibly fast. Don't be surprised when you hit the prof with your DOS questions if he can't answer you. Don't be surprised if your department head can't answer you either, but at least ask both of them and find out what they do know.

    TS - our 'big 2' state uni's are actually exploring the division of the computer science BS degree into a 'networking' option and a 'programming' option - with that option specified on the degree itself. Up to now, the only way for a person with my networking AAS to go was into 'Bachelors of Technology' an 'iffy' degree at best. If they actually differentiate the CoSc degree as planned, I might be heading back to school...
    Even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

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  2. #22
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    when i was taking network admin at school we where still doing Novell Netware!! After 6 months in the course we leaned alot about setting up networks and ect.. but we never touched on what happends when a network isn't properly configured * so i dropped out and took programming* The problem with schools not teaching this stuff is a) they dont know anything about hacking and b) they dont care. They go on the assumtion you know how to configure things and dont bother teaching the you the reprocutions.

    as for flamming this guy that wasn't cool, i know first hand his questions cause i had the same ones when i went to colledge. unfortunatly colledges are not going to teach you this stuff and if you want to be really good in the field you will have to teach yourself.
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  3. #23
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    if you want to be really good in the field you will have to teach yourself.
    Amen
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides
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  4. #24
    if you want to be really good in the field you will have to teach yourself.
    ...that's why there's AO to help us...

    Hallelujahhhh!
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  5. #25
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    JRUMJ

    Nihil I understand your point about old hacking tools or information is not very useful because of rapid changes. On the other hand, it helps to know even if it isn't used often or at all. New tech usually comes from some type of revision or mod of the older
    I can see your point, perhaps some sort of history of networks, weaknesses and attacks would be a useful approach? I don't know about you, but I find things a lot easier to grasp if there is a timeline or a practical application there to hang them off.

    /off topic

    I once had to study pure math & statistics. I found stuff like calculus really hard going, but the statistics was a breeze, it was immediately obvious what you would use it for

    If you cannot do someone any good: don't do them any harm....
    As long as you did this to one of these, the least of my little ones............you did it unto Me.
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  6. #26
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    I once had to study pure math & statistics. I found stuff like calculus really hard going, but the statistics was a breeze, it was immediately obvious what you would use it for
    My god... You _are_ my brother....

    I was great at geometry... I could draw a picture of the problem and visualize it... Algebra I could get along with because I could see a clear use for "2x+3=5 what is x"... Calculus was like "Who gives a rats if x^2 differentiated = 2x or whatever"... Now, had my schoolteacher told me that you could predict the trajectory of a bullet using calculus I might have listened a bit harder.... :rolleyes"
    Don\'t SYN us.... We\'ll SYN you.....
    \"A nation that draws too broad a difference between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools.\" - Thucydides
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  7. #27
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    - Port scan (what would you look for besides open ports?)

    You would look for not only what services are running on those ports but the version of those services and the operating system they are running on

    What can be done with ports that are not closed?

    Im not sure I understand the question but here goes anyway. First a port is only open when a service is using it. An exploit for the particular software running on an open port can be searched for and used

    How can you access ports that are open?

    Same as above.

    -How can you discover what is on the end of that ip address?
    With or without a firewall?
    How could you tell?

    Each operating system responds to requests in different ways. For instance with a ping windows has a ttl of 128 while *nix is 64. ip printers, routers, firewalls whatever all use an operating system of some sort.
    There are tools made to detect these differences. A good one to illustrate how this is done is nmap. If you learn to use nmap it will answer allot of your questions

    -How would you determine what the biggest security risk is as a network administrator?

    By doing a security audit. The best way would be to hire a security firm to do one for you. There are tools out there like nessus to help you do this yourself but this is such a specialized field that by the time you learn to do an audit yourself your network has been ‘public domain’ for a very long time.

    What should be monitored the closest if you are expecting a malicious person to damage something from outside the network?

    Without knowing the method of attack that will be used you have to log and monitor everything. Again there are tools to help like ‘snort’ but there’s also the firewall and event logs.

    System administration is a very broad field. Keeping everyone connected and the machines and software up to date while trying to stay on top of and incorporate new technologies is pretty time consuming in itself. System security has become pretty much of a specialized field. It’s like you go to school to be a doctor but if you want to be a cardiologist you need to continue your education and you can’t become one without the basic medical training first
    Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”
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  8. #28
    Right turn Clyde Nokia's Avatar
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    This is probably one of the best threads I have read around here for a while!

    JRUMJ, dont just rely on the books you get from your collage either,I have found collage books are geared to the ciriculum you are studying, which doesnt always apply fully to the real world.

    Make sure that if you dont understand something and its not covered fully enough in your book, go out and buy one that does cover it!

    Also use things like google - im not saying it in a "what are you asking that question for, go and search for it yourself" way, but use it for things like, finding more info on what Tiger Shark posted before about DoS, you have a starting point to search from with the info he has gave you, build on it!

    Use sites like this as much as you can,(there are more than AO) in someways they are better than search engines (although use the AO search engine too, a lot of your questions will have already been asked!) as you can structure your question exactly how you want it and you can make use of people like TS, who have the knowledge and the willingness to help you. You cant always get access to people like this who do the job in the real world when you are in collage, so this is a good way to tap into a wealth of information!

    and Good Luck



    //of topic, does it piss anyone else of when in help forum they say -- go an use google! -- if everyone just used google, there wouldnt be a need for a help forum!
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  9. #29
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    Originally posted here by Nokia

    //of topic, does it piss anyone else of when in help forum they say -- go an use google! -- if everyone just used google, there wouldnt be a need for a help forum!
    //off topic response: In all fairness I don't think AntiOnline was ever intended to be a help forum.. Also look at the forum we're in... Web Security in Security Discussions.... Discussions.. not help.. .. Besides someone could go to google, come back and say "You know what guys.. i tried these searches, and went to these sites (giving lists both times) and still didn't find what I was looking for, but I did learn this and this and this"... There are support forums and help sites for most things... but AO doesn't say anywhere that it's a help site... :P then again.. that doesn't mean it isn't becoming/hasn't become one. The reason isn't to scare people away either... it's to make them think and learn... no one learns while being spoon fed.. just look at a lot of the idiots that colleges and univrsities turn out..
    IT Blog: .:Computer Defense:.
    PnCHd (Pronounced Pinched): Acronym - Point 'n Click Hacked. As in: "That website was pinched" or "The skiddie pinched my computer because I forgot to patch".
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  10. #30
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    nihil - I definitely need a better grasp, your are 100% correct.


    @tt!tud3 & Tiger - I expect my school to teach me things like protocols, OSI, WAN, LAN, and the basic things that I can start to grasp. Exactly, the rest is up to me to teach myself. Which is no problem, who would be a better teacher for me than myself?

    AO is a great place (besides some of the non-worthy members that don't what a forum is for LOL). I am learning from it already and hope to contribute my knowledge down the road like you all have for me.

    Tedob1 - I believe i am starting to get a handle on it. My next step is to probably setup a small network of my own and start banging away get some physical results.

    I don't remember and I don't want to go back and look but someone wanted to know my schooling info. I am going to ITT Tech, 7th quarter of 16. I have not even entered the ISS (internet security systems) yet. The first 8 quarters are networking, operating system, protocols, topologies, wans, lans, programming, math, comp, dynamics, etc. Basics. I start ISS in my 9th quarter which I am very excited about.... I think it will be a great experience for me. I will have a associates degree after my 8th quarter and a bachelors after my 16th.

    Nokia- I do agree with you, the reason I would use a forum is not to get spoon fed (only as a starting block of important information or technology that I will decide if it is worth researching and educating myself on) but to hear what experienced people have to say. I NEVER, NEVER, NEVER rely on one source. Purchasing books is not one of my options now because they are expensive. I have resources at my school that I take advantage of much as possible, other forums, and of course my friend google.
    Thanks,
    jrumj
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