The flight that got slammed into the pentagon.

[dalek]

The point is Bush attacked a nation (afgan, Iraq) which violates United nation clauses instead of going for the terrorists themselves.

All of this could have been avoided if said host nations didn't protect the criminals(terrorists), if you aid and abet, then you are part of the problem. Just as in law, if you harbour a known criminal from the justice system then you can be charged.

How would you go about going after the terrorist themselves???, if they go to a nation that is willing to let them in, then what, we just hold up at the border until we get clearance from the host nation allowing us to proceed, meanwhile ol'd Osama goes out the back door.....

If you do not want to bring terrorism to your own front door, then get rid of these idiots that will use every means possible to avoid getting caught...

Bush, as much as I dislike him, had it right when he said...your'e either fur us or agin us...

[MURACU]

Consider this one what if Bush didnt attack Iraq for the oil but because he was told to by the saudis?
Consider that the only country that islam did not have a strangle hold on in the whole area was Iraq.
Saudi arabia is more or less the center of the islamic faith.
Saddam scared the **** out of them when he invaded Kuwait.
Bush is a close family friend to the royal family.
The saudis have about 10 trillion dollars invested in the american economy.
Iraq was the country in that area that had the least connections to the 9/11 bombers. I dont think any of the bombers were Iraqi. Quite a few of them were Saudi.
The US already had control of the iraqi oil fields through the UN. Dont forget this was at the time the UN was still doing as it was told by the US. And before any one starts saying oil for food scandel take a look at the amount of funds that have been misused since the liberation of Iraq by US comapnies and diplomats.

edit : Dalek the terrorist were never in Iraq.

[Cider]

The United Nations Could not intervene with Americas invasion of Afgan and Irag. There are five major players: Britain, France, Russia, America and China. If a country does something that goes against the UN's clauses these five players come together and vote. However with America invading the five players came together can called a vote to stop America. All the Americans did was "veto" this and the UN couldn't. In the early 1900s (1930 for example) the League Of Nations (known as the UNO today) was a complete failure. Today some people might see the UN as a failure as they couldnt intervene. Its stupid really that if one of those five nations invade forgein land the UN cant do anything as they will just veto. This was huge discussions during the cold war and America and the USSR were both part of the league of nations so they couldnt sanction each other :P

[nihil]

d0pp

You are history boy

[dalek]

edit : Dalek the terrorist were never in Iraq.

You don't really know that for sure do you???, as far as I know, the Iraqi's Baath party are pretty tight with Syria, and we all know that Syria is the epitomy of nice right?

All the Americans did was "veto" this and the UN couldn't.

Oh so now it's a bad thing for the US to veto a UN security sanction, where were the rest of the world when the then USSR invaded Afghanistan, and the US along with the UK protested, but because the Soviets and Chinese are also on the Security council, they were able to veto the proposals brought forward by the US and the UK.

Two problems with today's UN....1.Corruption 2. Too many "old Boy's" making the decisions. One of the major reasons the US won't ante up it's share of the UN dues, is because they want reform, and I agree, when they clean out the petty bureaucrats, and put in place an International Peacekeeping Force, that can flex it's muscles and not be hidebound by petty squabbles then maybe it will work...

Until then the only cop around is the US, I mean really what are we all going to do, if China decides that it's time for Tiawan to come back into the fold, and moves in militarily, who is realistically going to stop them. No One....

[MURACU]

Dalek the us is no more a cop than russia or china is. As for corruption look at the corruption in iraq since the US took over. The Us is doing what any major power will do and that is looking out for number one. The big differance between the US, Russia and China is that the US tries to candy coat what it does and then get pissed off when the world doesn't buy it.

[dalek]

MURACU you may have a point, but if I had my "druther's" I think I would go with what the US has to offer, as I am sure you are just as familiar with the records of the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China, when it comes to interfering with other countries, let alone their own citizens very lives.

As for the US is no more a cop then Russia or China, I have to disagree.....even with all of their warts, the US is by far the preferable of the three, from my perspective, we may not like the way they go about doing things on the world stage, but until someone bigger comes along, we are kinda stuck with it, and just suppose Kennedy hadn't of called Breshnev's bluff in 62, or if the US without MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) or Detente where would this planet be today....do you seriously think Russia or China's way of doing things would have been better???

The US along with NATO (not the UN) are responsible for basically keeping the Soviets under heel, until they went bankrupt trying to outbuy Reagan...

I am also sure the majority of the people who used to live under the yoke of the Warsaw Pact are better off today, maybe a little poorer because of corrupt politicians, but eventually they will get it together.

look at China, and what they are doing today, they are "Communist" in name only, and the ruling party are trying to figure out a way to survive, when the sh*t hits the fan, because 1.5 billion people are going to want their iPods........

[MURACU]

Actually dalek I would as well but for arguments sake I am sure that a lot of people would say that russia was the only thing that kept America honest.

[dalek]

Originally posted here by MURACU
Actually dalek I would as well but for arguments sake I am sure that a lot of people would say that russia was the only thing that kept America honest.

Touche.....

[Cider]

Dalek you are defending Americas actions as they are the strongest nation and no one can really stand up to them. Yes they are the main superpower with China right behind them however I dont agree with there actions. The point still remains: Attacking Afgan was a total mistake which cost civilian lives. Yes 9/11 cost lives too however does two wrong make a right. People say that on the day of the japanese attack on Pearl Harbour they "awoke alseeping giant" but America just awoke the right wing muslims by doing what they doing. Yes the suicide bombers were always there but America should have gone a different route. As you read in the bible that the end of the world will take place in the middle east > it is just a matter of time before it begins. Nostradamus predicted 2012 will be the year that the world ends. So good luck to us all.