Powerful 9/11 Documentary That Brings up Many Questions

[tin.roof.rabbit]

I honestly believe that 9/11 was a terrorist act. Look at how afraid America is.

I also know that Iraq is real, that the US has enemies, that Moussaoui will get what is coming to him(by a court of law - the American way), and that over 3000 innoceint people died on 9/11(Every time I go back to NYC to see my brother and my wife's family I am reminded of that fact). Just like every time I turn on the news I am reminded of the innocents being killed all around the world.

The subject was a video that stated a researched opinion about the terrible event. It turned to a shot at Islam. Which is what I responded to.

[fourdc]

Texan and RC,

I am in agreement with you concerning the attacks on 9/11, I can't imagine a sitting president knowingly let his fellow Americans die in such a way.

The conflict in Afghanistan could have been avoided if the reignng party, the Taliban, extradited Bin Laden who was not a citizen of Afghanistan. This would have been no threat to their soveriegnty.

However this is where we part company. All of the reasons for the invasion, toppling the government and now occupation of Iraq were either misinformation or lies. Can we cut and run, I think we're in this mess for a long time.
Where is the accountability though? If I were CEO of any organization and I was lied to or misinformed by my people they would be hung out to dry. Not just for my own PR, but so they couldn't do it again.

Even the Bush administartion cannot make a connection between Saddam and 9/11. Toppling Saddam has not made the US safer.

Suspecting every Muslim of being a terrorist brings us back to the days of the US locking all of the Japanese or even a longer stretch, Hitler locking up all of the Jews, gypsies, disabled, etc etc.

The US has been built on a quite a mix of ethnic and religious outcasts and refugees from other countries. If we're going to start a "American purity" I guess we're all going to leave and let the indigenious Americans have their land back.

[The Texan]

Well every man/woman is allowed their opinion RC was just voicing his. Personally I dont think he, thinks all muslims are "ragheads" but I really cant defend him to much since I dont know him personally. You will have to take that up with him. I was just making the point that some people choose to deny 9/11 was caused by terrorists at all, they claim it was the American gov. who did it to our own people which I think is wrong. Dead wrong.

edit/ Toppling Saddam maybe hasnt made American soil safer ( mabe it has) but I do believe it has made it safer for the people of Iraq. You will prolly ask how so? with all the car bombs blowing up etc.... Well if you just listen to any piece of Saddams trial you will realize how many terrible things he did to his OWN PEOPLE over the years he was in power and now that he is out of power that has stopped. So if nothing else this war in Iraq has put a stop to that.

[dalek]

Well if you just listen to any piece of Saddams trial you will realize how many terrible things he did to his OWN PEOPLE over the years he was in power and now that he is out of power that has stopped. So if nothing else this war in Iraq has put a stop to that

Hi Tex

I don't believe in the conspiracy theory either, I also believe that today the biggest threat to our way of lives is "extremisim" or terrorists, however, if everyone were to do some research into the way Saddam Hussein behaved to his own people, you will find George Bush Sr's fingerprints on some of what he did (Kurds).

People have short memories when it come to these despots, for years, the US propped up the Shah of Iran, who brutalized his own people, why do you think the 1979 Hostage taking took place....score one for the extremists.

During the 10yr war between Iraq and Iran both sides were supported and supplied by both the then USSR and the USA, it was in the best interests of both the USSR and USA at the time, sort of hoping both sides would kill each other off? score 2 for the extremists

During the USSR occupation of Afghanistan, who do you think was being trained by the CIA to help the Mujahadeen into fighting against the Soviets...give yourself an A if you guessed Osama Bin Laden, so once the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan thanks in no small part to the well trained (CIA) Mujahadeen, they then turned on to the capital of Afghanistan and took control of it and became the "Taliban" score 3 for the extremists


Moral....."What you shall sow, so shall you reap", or what goes around comes around.If we could go back in time, I would insist that big buisiness interests (oil/arms) stay the ***** out of foreign affairs or stop lobbying the politicians into seeing their way is the right way...

End of Rant.....

[The Texan]

Sorry im a little fuzzy on history pre 1984 as I wasnt conceived yet but I will Google around and see what I can learn. I like to have a fair and balanced opinion of everything or at a least try

[dalek]

Originally posted here by The Texan
Sorry im a little fuzzy on history pre 1984 as I wasnt conceived yet but I will Google around and see what I can learn. I like to have a fair and balanced opinion of everything or at a least try

hahaha young man, don't think that lets you off the hook...... Yes there is a lot of reading out there for sure...

1.Iran/Contra
2. Shah of Iran
3. Soviet Occupation of Afghanistan
4. Iran/Iraq War
5. Kurds Not familiar with the source for this, but keep an open mind about it and try to tie in some of the other stuff.


Happy Reading...

[Raion]

I completly, 100% disagree with the whole documentary. I refuse to believe that the United States government will carry out such an attack. Here is some of the things the documentary pointed out to be proving it was a consipiracy:

A.) They said that an airplane did not crash into the pentagon, but instead a missle..so what are they trying to imply? that the united states government murdered a plane full of people on the side? Because there is a bunch of families whose family members were on that flight and died.

B.) They have some proof that some explosions might have been set off in the tower where the first plane hit, but the evidence supporting the tower were the first plane hit does not convince me at all. First of all, it mentioned that a building in x country lastest 17 hours burning and did NOT collapse. That is definately plausible. However, the building structure was not weaked by a plane traveling at 500+ mph. Also another reason that seems plausible in my mind (not sure if it's possible scientifically) is that perhaps some of the fuel did not immediately explode, but later exploded due to the fire.

C.) If you notice the exterior 'explosions' when the buildings where collapsing, you notice that they are generally the same width apart from where the building has collapsed. My explination is that was caused by the buckling of the building structure.

D.) They mention that the black boxes, or whatever the name was (I forgot this moment), only 8 out of 9, i believe they said were still able to be listened to, they said it was of flight 11..Well what about the one from Flight 93, which was played in the trial for Zacarias Moussaoui. In the tape you hear the terriosts saying they are trying to get into the cockpit, and you hear them banging on the cockpit doors. Which disproves that Flight 93 was shot down.

E.) They say that there were EYEWITNESS accounts, that saw two planes (which I'll later attempt to explain with information from a seperate documentary), and saw one fall from the sky and another women said that the plane flew right above her and her car. Well, first about the plane flying so low...earlier in the documentary they showed what happens when a car is too close to a plane...so what stopped it from happening in that same situation...?

About the plane being shot down, they later said they couldn't find any large pieces of the airplane itself in the aftermath..well that really shows one of two things, the credibility of their eye-witnesses or the credibility of the documentary itself, you be the judge of which is true.

F.) About the second plane, I watched a documentary on the discovery channel a while back about Flight 93 and the heros on it. It specifically mentioned that they DID see two plane crossed each other at different altitudes, but then one of the flights removed one of the transmitters, that transmit information about the flight (flight number, altitude, speed, etc) to the air base, but the plane still remained in flight and was very far away from the other plane when it crashed. (According to the documentary, the second plane was a commercial flight)

Weather or not you agree with my opinions, is up to you. But I refuse to believe that the United States government would pull off something to destructive and never be caught or ratted out by one of their former/current employees. If information about a possible terrorist attack leaked weeks before it was released to the public here in NYC, why wouldn't something this big leak?

[dalek]

Weather or not you agree with my opinions, is up to you. But I refuse to believe that the United States government would pull off something to destructive and never be caught or ratted out by one of their former/current employees. If information about a possible terrorist attack leaked weeks before it was released to the public here in NYC, why wouldn't something this big leak?

That's how you dispell conspiracy theories every time...too many people involved for there to be a coverup...good grief, if Gotti couldn't keep one wise guy from blabbing, what makes everyone think the Gov't can, heck the gov't through "unknown sources" leak confidential/secret crap every day/week, whatever is convenient for "dis-information". That's how they do it, all the Gov't around the world leak dis-information, more or less to counter what is really going on, or to create "FUD".

The randomness of these events,(targets) even though they appear orchestrated could never have been part of a major plot, too many loose threads, too many fingers in the pie so to speak...too much coordination required for the logistics involved by the supposedly gang of "traitors" to have been able to pull it off.

Oh and in case those that believe in the conspiracy theory want to put forward the argument that all Gov't employees would be afraid to come forward, not true, as long as every person on this planet has a weakness for anything they can be bought, if the price is right, also lets think about it, say you did have everyone in the Pentagon all the way from the Admiral down to the corporal who sits at the front desk convinced that this is an event propagated by the administration, you can bet someone in that chain would be a true patriot and do what's right....

One thing I do know is print media or videos can be altered to make it seem like what you are looking at is the real thing, it's called "propoganda" and if enough of it sells, then some of it will stick.Again FUD......I remember clearly watching the second plane hit the second tower on that morning, and I refuse to believe it was anything other then a commercial jetliner that was highjacked by extremists, also I refuse to believe that all of those who died on flight 93 were a figment of our imaginations, or that the big hole in the pentagon was made by a cruise missile or tomahawk.

People can believe what they want, and give their opinions, but as far as I am concerned, those that are ill informed should gather the facts by those that are professional and know what they are talking about then those who have a hidden agenda, such as politicians who in their opinion the towers had bombs planted..WTF, where did they get their degree in Civil Engineering, what do they know about Aeronautics....it's PR bullsh*t.....

[rcgreen]

I feel much hate and intolerance in here.

You are very perceptive. I have run out of patience with Islam
and hate it and refuse to tolerate it. call it what you like.

In 1968, when I was a liberal anti-war high school student,
an arab terrorist assassinated a US senator who was the
leading Democratic candidate in the presidential elections
that year. The senator.. Robert Kennedy.

Check any year between then and 2001 and you will find a long
string of assassinations, kidnappings, hijackings, bombings,
murders, rapes, invasions committed solely for the propagation
of Islamic Holy War.

Actually, we in the west are only recent victims of this abuse.
In India, the Muslims refuse to tolerate the majority Hindus,
because paganism is intolerable to them. Tolerance works
both ways. If they call me an "infidel", I'm not inclined to
tolerate their intolerance.

Islam is not a religion, it is a political ideology that tolerates
no rivals and no alternatives. In the west, we think of religion as
someone's ceremonies by which they relate to "the gods".
You say your prayers, burn some incense or sacrifice a
chicken, and then you go about your business. Maybe if you
are a Jehova's witness, you knock on doors and pitch your
ideas to anyone who will listen. It has been four hundred
years since it was considered acceptable to spread religion
by means of force, intimidation or war. Comparing Islam to
Christianity is apples and oranges.

[Egaladeist]

Didn't we already beat this horse to death in another thread

9/11 was a act perpetrated by an extremeist element of the Muslim community...extremeists are not particular to Islam...there are all kinds of factions of them in the world from the neo-nazi's to the religious right...

this is the world we live in...it can be a pretty scary freak show kinda place...get a gun, lock your doors, hide your daughters, and don't go out after dark...

or live with it.

Eg