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Thread: Masters for computer security geek

  1. #11
    Senior Member genXer's Avatar
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    From the elearners link, I saw that they listed Capella University. My manager has attended Capella University for her MBA and loved it. She had instructors from across the US that they would get from either the industry or would adjunct from another school: http://www.elearners.com/online-degree/4131.htm

    Just another resource to check out.

    Also - I finished my Masters while I had one kid. It wigged me out and my job performance went down slightly, but once a routine was worked out, everything went fine. Afterwards I was burnt out, just now coming out of it and I had finished in 2004. I am now thinking of a terminal degree in either a PhD or JD or another Masters, but one in security, like IG is looking to achieve.

    Also-also - Irongeek - will your employer provide some form of reimbursement for this I hope?
    \"We\'re the middle children of history.... no purpose or place. We have no Great War, no Great Depression. Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives. We\'ve all been raised by television to believe that one day we\'ll all be millionaires and movie gods and rock stars -- but we won\'t. And we\'re learning slowly that fact. And we\'re very, very pissed off.\" - Tyler (Brad Pitt) Fight Club.

  2. #12
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    HEYa Irongeek!
    I have an associates degree in Computer Security Administration and I can guarantee you that with your knowledge you could complete the course in about a year and a half! It is an actual legitament degree, not a certificate or a degree from like ITT tech. You can get it from San Antonio College where I go! Anyways heres the info.

    www.accd.edu

    P.S.
    They have pell grants to pay for you books and tuition and you do not have to pay them back.
    If you want more info just hit me up at rigamortus2003@yahoo.com
    Good Luck,
    Viralnexxus
    \"They have the internet on computers now?\"

  3. #13
    Master-Jedi-Pimps0r & Moderator thehorse13's Avatar
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    I'm curious about something and this isn't an attempt to hijack this thread.

    Why do you folks feel that a masters or a PhD in security is necessary for your career path? Are all of you looking to sit at a "C" level position such as CSO?

    The reason I'm asking is because when you're at that level, you need a hell of a lot more skills than simply knowing how to NMAP scan a subnet. A CSO position is 99% business and perhaps 1% security.

    Does this mean that technicians are actually striving to become business people? If so, whouldn't a masters in business be smarter if you already have an undergrad in CS? To me, this makes sense because you stand to sharpen many skill sets instead of just one.

    Think about this people. I don't mean to sound like a parent but take it from someone who has some experience in these matters.

    Anyway, if anyone cares to respond, I'd be very interested in hearing what you have to say about this.

    --TH13
    Our scars have the power to remind us that our past was real. -- Hannibal Lecter.
    Talent is God given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful. -- John Wooden

  4. #14
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    I'm a CISSP who decided to go back to college to complete my B.S. degree. I started to see even having my CISSP in the job postings wasn't enough. My current employer just wants me to have the cert but doesn't care about the degree. I don't think I'll be there the rest of my life. So, I decided last Jan to start a degree program at Mt. Sierra College (after researching other programs of course in Dec 2004). They have an excellent program in Information Security. Most of the other schools have a Computer Science Degree but I love information security work (not just programming or developing) and I only thought a degree in it would be fitting. I'm going Full Time while I am working Full Time as a Privacy and Security Coordinator for a large Hospital. It's a lot of work but I know when I graduate next Sept. it will be worth it.

    All of the school cirriculum is online. Good interaction with other students through weekly postings and assignments. The cost is reasonable as well. I think it's $278 a credit right now. It's a 4 year degree program completed in 3 years. Four 11-week terms per year. It's the kind of program where I know a quarter to half the classes. So, it will enable me to take a couple 5-class terms and finish 3 months early. The school is accredited as well. The staff is very helpful through the entire program.

    But keep in mind, online learning is really geared towards the type of person who can motivate themselves to ready, study and learn on their own. The type of person who needs someone to read the concepts and studies to them and then pound it into their brain, the online learning arena is likely not for you. But fortunately for me, I am self-motivated with most everything in my life, so it was just a natural fit. They also use ecollege.com on the backside and its been very stable and flexible. I can study and learn when I can and where ever I need to (e.g. Went on vacation in March and took my last final exam from the hotel room. That's flexibility!)

    There are plenty of online classes out there these days, but if it's InfoSec you're looking for Irongeek, you should check out http://www.mtsierra.edu/online_p_information.php and look at their online InfoSec degree program. I don't get anything for referring to them (at least I don't think so! lol!). I'm just excited about the classes and the fact I can work full time, have a family and still hold a 3.5GPA. I'm halfway through the program and can see a glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel!

    hth,

    Joe

  5. #15
    Royal Holloway, University of London also runs a distance learning course at about £ 10000 pounds. These taught Masters courses seem to come in at around the same price. Have you considered a research degree, they are generally cheaper and you can choose to go for masters or doctorate level depending on your interests and requirements.

    T
    No one can foresee the consequences of being clever.

  6. #16
    Originally posted here by thehorse13


    Why do you folks feel that a masters or a PhD in security is necessary for your career path? Are all of you looking to sit at a "C" level position such as CSO?

    Does this mean that technicians are actually striving to become business people? If so, whouldn't a masters in business be smarter if you already have an undergrad in CS? To me, this makes sense because you stand to sharpen many skill sets instead of just one.

    Anyway, if anyone cares to respond, I'd be very interested in hearing what you have to say about this.

    --TH13
    Hi,

    It depends on what you want to achieve. Most taught Masters teach a mixture of technical and business skills and are particularly suited to someone with a bit of industry experience who wants to specialise in a technical area at a commercial level e.g. pen testing, consultancy.

    Research degrees in the area tend to concentrate on security engineering problems although I have also come across some law and business related research - really these are for guys who either want to move into academia or commerial or government R&D. Or are just stupid (my IQ has just taken a severe nosedive).

    I have also come across a professional doctorate program which combines on the job experience with taught courses and some more minor research opportunities. This would be a good career move for some one with extensive experience who needed a demonstrable qualification.

    the professional qualifications including the sacred CISSP tend to just scratch the surface and don't go deep enough to satisfy real security gurus.

    Business skills might be handy for some jobs but I would say the main skills are consultancy, negotiation and project management which don't require a full blown MBA program to achieve.

    T
    No one can foresee the consequences of being clever.

  7. #17
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    Well, I think that Hoss has a very valid point...............

    Anyway, if anyone cares to respond, I'd be very interested in hearing what you have to say about this.
    If you think that you are a "geek" you are doomed................might as well join the French Foreign Legion IMO.............

    Look at Gates, Ballmer, Jobs, and the rest of the drones...............do they have a masters in computer security?

    No, but they know how to make money and enrich themselves, they know how to manipulate/deploy those who are narrow minded tekkies?

    My advice will be contraversial:

    GO FOR AN MBA!

    That way all the EVP's/Directors can see that you have a qualification that they understand and respect

    HR: "Do you have any professional qualifications?"
    DRONE: "Well I have a CISSP"
    HR: "Err, no, that goes in the physical disabilities part of the application form"

    (HR = "Human Remains" for those who have led a sheltered life
    )

    Just my view, but for 25,000 bucks an MBA is for life.....................who knows what computer security will involve in 10 years' time?

    Sorry to be cynical, but this is what I have seen in over 30 years' of work experience

  8. #18
    Master-Jedi-Pimps0r & Moderator thehorse13's Avatar
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    Actually Nihil, your view is not off the mark at all. In fact, it's dead on.

    Here is why I brought this up.

    The security industry is going to go through another major change very soon (in fact, it has already begun). In my opinion, business skills will be the desired combo with technical security skills.

    Tools are being dumbed down much like when HTML editors began auto generating code. The l33t HTML coders who could write up pages in notepad were being outdone by housewives with auto generating HTML tools. This is also happening now with scanning appliances, Risk Assessment tools, all-in-one network appliances, and so on. A first year IT tech can easily setup a firewall, VPN, IDS and IPS with a single appliance and almost no security knowledge. All he/she has to do is know how to configure the settings on a NIC card and possibly a spanning port on a router/switch.

    The point is that I can already see the fork in the road that I predicted years back. This is why I have a masters in business, and an undergrad in CIS. Businesses don't care about your alphabet soup (this goes for me as well) anymore. They want someone who can "show them the money".

    Face it folks, the shine has worn off the security sector and now CEOs want to see hard returns on their investment in our trade. This isn't going to happen by simply installing AV and such. You're going to have to get your hands dirty and dig into the core business practices, understand them, classify them, streamline them and finally, secure them.

    THIS IS WHERE WE ARE GOING. LIVE IT, LEARN IT. More or less, I feel that you're wasting your time and money getting a masters in CIS unless you're going into one of a handful of *highly* specialized areas of research. Even then, these areas could dry up overnight.

    If you want to read a little bit about what I'm talking about, see this:
    http://www.enterpriseitplanet.com/se...le.php/3593756

    --TH13
    Our scars have the power to remind us that our past was real. -- Hannibal Lecter.
    Talent is God given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful. -- John Wooden

  9. #19
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    i agree with both thehorse13 and nihil that going for masters in CIS after doing bacelors in CIS is not that effective as compared to doing MBA. But what you guys think or suggest that for how long one should work in info. security (at technical level) before attempting for MBA. As whats in my case is that i have bachlors in computer science and working in industry for 1.5 years after completing my degree. So is this right time to purse MBA or should i work more before going for MBA?

    Thanks
    Excuse me, is there an airport nearby large enough for a private jet to land?

  10. #20
    Master-Jedi-Pimps0r & Moderator thehorse13's Avatar
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    Based on how I believe the industry is shifting, it would be appropriate for you to stay employed in the infosec area while pursuing the MBA. You can always get more technical certs along the path to your MBA.

    In the words of master ship builder Andrews, "Go now. Don't wait."
    Our scars have the power to remind us that our past was real. -- Hannibal Lecter.
    Talent is God given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful. -- John Wooden

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