Thinking of getting a cert? Read this first. - Page 2
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Thread: Thinking of getting a cert? Read this first.

  1. #11
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    Ga!
    How do I get my post to say who the quote is from?

  2. #12
    Just a Virtualized Geek MrLinus's Avatar
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    {entirely off topic}

    Originally posted here by rmlj63
    Ga!
    How do I get my post to say who the quote is from?
    Use the quote button on the post you wish to quote from or check the box (beside the Quote option) for the posts you wish to quote from and then hit Quote Checked.

    {back to topic}

    To respond to other posts, HR has completely ruined the IT hiring market. Recruiters and HR departments have misunderstood certifications and credentials to the degree that they have single-handedly diminished the value most of them. It is particularly frustrating for those of us who have put in a lifetime of work and effort to hold the certs and creds we do have.
    Yes and no. The MCSE got devalued by those that held it without ever touching an NT box (I've met those people -- it's really scary). We have to keep in mind that when HR receives resumes (and it's not just a few, it's thousands in some cases) they have to have some way of sifting through the piles to find those that might work. I have to give credit to VMWare. They have a positive way of finding those that make the cut. There are 3-4 interviews (1 phone for initial knowledge, 2nd phone for troubleshooting/process thinking, 3rd interview in person for general intro, fit with company, etc., 4th with the big boss). This process includes sifting through the piles of certs, etc. so that interviews are done on a specific basis. But there's a little more to it than that. Employees can recommend someone and get a bonus for it. I suspect it's not just that people are looking beyond the certs, but they are relying on IT's network to find those that do fit.

    3. non-certs <- what does that mean (kinda generic) allowing you to make it whatever you feel like little or no parameters
    Well, my understanding is those that don't have certifications like A+, Security+, MCSE, CISSP, etc.. Now, it doesn't mean that they don't have degrees (Bachelors, Masters, etc.).
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  3. #13
    Master-Jedi-Pimps0r & Moderator thehorse13's Avatar
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    Well just for the record, I would hire a guy that used to be a hell's angel over a professional cert collector if the hell's angel had the mad skillz that I desire. I too have seen paper MCSEs who don't even know how to join an exchange server to a domain.

    Am I going somewhere with this? Yep.

    Funny story. My mentor (who works with me now) used to be a hell's angel then went on to work for IBM in the early 70s where he developed an OS for them that is still in use today.

    He has no certs, no college education, nada. He is self taught, reads *all* the time and has an IQ of 151.

    A cert is a single part of an overall presentation. You need many things to be successful.
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  4. #14
    Member tin.roof.rabbit's Avatar
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    A cert is a single part of an overall presentation. You need many things to be successful.
    All too true. A cert is a nice to have, my company pushes their employees to collect any that are related to their job, skill set or career path, but if you get on site and we see you're a paper cert. You won't make it past your 30 day evaluation.

    Usually the guy/gal with the full bowl of alphabit soup listed is the last person we look to call unless they have references from prievious jobs.

  5. #15
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    Originally posted here by rapier57
    ??? Interesting. Of course, to get a CISSP, you have to have four or more years of verifiable professional experience. Of course your associates degree is easier to get. Takes all of two years and you get to party hardy the whole time. You still have no, zero, nada real world experience with just that degree. And, who says that it weighs more than any cert??? Your teacher?

    To respond to other posts, HR has completely ruined the IT hiring market. Recruiters and HR departments have misunderstood certifications and credentials to the degree that they have single-handedly diminished the value most of them. It is particularly frustrating for those of us who have put in a lifetime of work and effort to hold the certs and creds we do have.
    To tell you the truth Rapier I got my associates in Computer Security Administration and yes I still don't have a job because of experience! I don't know if it exactly weighs more than a CERT, but I think it is all about how you carry and present yourself, even if you have to BS a little bit. Of course you could get the CSA degree and the CERTS and maybe that will even up the odds. I need all the help and luck I can get.
    \"They have the internet on computers now?\"

  6. #16
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    Re: Thinking of getting a cert? Read this first.

    I am not surprised at all. However, I do not discourage people from getting more certifications because:

    1. The process of studying for certs usually bring additional level of knowledge and formal coverage of subject.

    2. You may not make lots of money anymore if you hold a cert. However, a certification usually adds value to your resume. It rarely or never hurts your resume as long as you know what you are doing.

    3. Trends of what employers value change from time to time. In doubt, hold as many certifications and degrees you can for a better chance.



    Originally posted here by thehorse13
    This is pretty interesting to me especially when I'm seeing the Govt. *require* contractors and employees to carry certain certifications.

    What do you guys think of this?


    Study Shows Downside of IT Certification
    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895...06dtx1k0000599

  7. #17
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    only if now they pay more, now you haev certs and now more then the pay still the same!
    Be Free Or Die

  8. #18
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    So would you hire someone who has no certs but can represent a good working knowledge of security?

  9. #19
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    I went halfway through my HPUX Certification when I realized that I probably wouldn't land in an entirely HPUX environment. Maybe unix certification is different than others because I've never seen any "Must be HPUX/Solaris/AIX certified" on any unix administration job.

    And to answer the previous poster's question, I have zero certs and zero college but I've been doing unix administration for the past ten years because of my mad skillz, yo. Hehe!

    As for certs...I think HR ruined it entirely, starting with MCSE's back when it was the "hot topic". "Here, look for this word...MCSE...anyone who doesn't have it, forget it". Yeah, that surely weeded out those who are veritable rock god porn stars with MS everything but not certified as well as bringing in paper-mcse's who can't create a profile.
    We the willing, led by the unknowing, have been doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much with so little for so long that we are now qualified to do just about anything with almost nothing.

  10. #20
    Webius Designerous Indiginous
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    I had a dicision to make a few years ago as to whether I was going to go the cert route, or the degree route. I chose to go the degree route and am in my senior year of computer engineering, and I couldn't be happier with my decision. I have already been given a good job in the IT industry and I am not even finished with my degree yet. If you are making a similar decision, I would highly reccomend going the degree route. This article simply enforces that fact.

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