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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    I think an important dynamic involved in this topic that has not been discussed is the lack of oversight in these programs.

    Naturally after the events of 9/11 the government is going to be more zealous in its intelligence gathering operations. Phone taps, call databases and internet traffic monitoring are in my opinion perfectly legitimate tools to thwart or further understand terroist operations and communication.

    I do not however feel that there is any strategic benefit in keeping these programs under wraps. Are we to assume that terorrist do not already suspect court ordered surveilence on their actions possible?

    Why are these programs being kept secret from the public? Why is there no judicial oversight? If it is a problem with consitutional protections put in place after prior abuses of power, why aren't we ammending those protections or at least discussing that possibility. Why hasn't the scope of these projects been brought to light?

    The executive branch has been in a perpetual power grab since 9/11 and the congress has failed to check the powers of the President. I dont find that statement argumentative or partisan and I think considering the facts most citizens would agree. They would also likely agree that these programs are necessary but that they should operate within the context of the law and have some type of oversight conducted by more then one branch of government.

  2. #42
    AO Guinness Monster MURACU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    I do not however feel that there is any strategic benefit in keeping these programs under wraps. Are we to assume that terorrist do not already suspect court ordered surveilence on their actions possible?
    Stevel you hit on the biggest problem with most of these programs. They are not court ordered. That is one of the issus with the collection of data. There are no safeguards on how it is collected, why it is collected and what use it is going to be put too.
    \"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.\"
    \"The reason we are so pleased to find other people\'s secrets is that it distracts public attention from our own.\"
    Oscar Wilde(1854-1900)

  3. #43
    Priapistic Monk KorpDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    "...no strategic benefit for keeping these programs under wraps"? HAHAHAHAHA. I sure am glad you don't have a say in the way things are conducted in the gov't. That's the funniest thing I've read all day, where's my Doonesbury?
    Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to acquire it.
    - Samuel Johnson

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Korp, are you suggesting terroists operate under the assumption that court ordered survelience of their actions is impossible?

    The only benefit of keeping these projects under wraps is political. I'm not saying these programs aren't needed, just that they should be monitored by a branch of government other then the one running them. The president has enjoyed more then enough support in the past 6 years to ammend FISA.

    If their is a strategic benefit to keeping these programs secret I'd like to hear it. The constitution does not say you have the right against search and seizure as I am sure terriost well know. The constitution says you have the right against unreasonable search and seizure without warrant.

    I can only assume you think that the judicial branch of goverment has some Al-Qaeda informants scattered throughout its ranks? Justice Ginsburg does look a tad bit exposed without her face veil on doesnt she?

  5. #45
    Now, RFC Compliant! Noia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Originally posted here by Guan-Di
    further, and please correct if i am mistaken, however, even if all of your own traffic and data is encrypted, just how long would that stand against the tools the government has; organizations akin to the NSA ? i am willing to bet a beer that their tools would shred anything the general public has in terms of protecting their data. meaning, i am thinking that there are backdoors to every application to allow the government acces in one form or fashion if required.
    I would recomend you read about the RSA algorithm, the main encryption method employed today, untill someone finds a fast and efficient way of factoring primes of very lagre magnitude things are not going to change. Yes, the NSA might be able to break weaker RSA codes in a minimal amount of time, but there is no guarantee that the data decrypted is important or relevant, and then there is ofcourse the problem of the use of astronomicaly large prime numbers, which even the NSA cant hope to crack.

    Their best approach would be a table of all possible high-order prime combinations, and that is STILL 2^n-1 where n is a very large number!

    As far as the government is conserned, software encryption is not worth the effort. And it is easy to thwart by sending several garbage messages that could tie up any investigation for years.
    With all the subtlety of an artillery barrage / Follow blindly, for the true path is sketchy at best. .:Bring OS X to x86!:.
    Og ingen kan minnast dei linne drag i dronningas andlet den fagre dag Då landet her kvilte i heilag fred og alle hadde kjærleik å elske med.

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