Thinking of getting a cert? Read this first.
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  1. #1
    Master-Jedi-Pimps0r & Moderator thehorse13's Avatar
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    Thinking of getting a cert? Read this first.

    This is pretty interesting to me especially when I'm seeing the Govt. *require* contractors and employees to carry certain certifications.

    What do you guys think of this?


    Study Shows Downside of IT Certification
    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895...06dtx1k0000599
    Our scars have the power to remind us that our past was real. -- Hannibal Lecter.
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  2. #2
    Just a Virtualized Geek MrLinus's Avatar
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    Curious that CISSP didn't appear in there as I heard last year that it was one of the highest earning security certs.

    I think employers are getting more savvier to a degree and starting to base hiring on true abilities as they are learning that just having the letter doesn't mean you actually have a clue or two.
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  3. #3
    Member tin.roof.rabbit's Avatar
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    I think employers are getting more savvier to a degree and starting to base hiring on true abilities as they are learning that just having the letter doesn't mean you actually have a clue or two.
    I have little faith that employers have two cents of a clue who they hire. Thankfully our managers understand they are managers, not technicians, and ask their team leads to interview with them. We weed out alot of bad applicants, like the MSCE applying for an Enterprise Administrator position supporting our multiforest AD structure and not know what schema is.

  4. #4
    Master-Jedi-Pimps0r & Moderator thehorse13's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by MsMittens
    Curious that CISSP didn't appear in there as I heard last year that it was one of the highest earning security certs.

    I think employers are getting more savvier to a degree and starting to base hiring on true abilities as they are learning that just having the letter doesn't mean you actually have a clue or two.
    I too was surprised. At IANETSEC this year, there was specific mention of the CISSP being a must have when shopping *AND* practicing.

    Again, I'm not so sure I buy into this article because in my experience, those who are rating applicants have no idea how to weight IT skills. Because of this simple fact, I tend to believe that the study is BS.

    Just for the record, I'm not saying that because I have a bunch of certs. I've seen first hand how HR fouls up this process.

    To me a cert says that you have a basic understanding of a defined set of concepts. This is not the same as saying a person has a very good skill set.

    Anyway, another 2 centz

    --Th13
    Our scars have the power to remind us that our past was real. -- Hannibal Lecter.
    Talent is God given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful. -- John Wooden

  5. #5
    AOs Resident Troll
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    Its like my old saying...mostly because we have a doctor shortage in the community here where I live...and frankly the doctors here really do pale in comparission of what I was used to in a major NA city.

    I travel to Toronto still for my family doctor...have been living here for over 12 years


    "Just cause your a doctor.....dont make you a good one"

    \just cause you have the certs...doesnt make you any good at the subject.....

    And most jobs now require a variety of skill sets...not just technical savy

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  6. #6
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    What I like now is that there is a real associates degree you can get that weighs more than any cert called Computer Security Administration. It is even easier to get than CISSP or RHCE or any of those certs. You just have to check into it.
    \"They have the internet on computers now?\"

  7. #7
    Just a Virtualized Geek MrLinus's Avatar
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    And most jobs now require a variety of skill sets...not just technical savy
    Actually, this point is a biggie. I'm constantly amazed at how many IT people I speak to and email that cannot put two coherent sentences together. And then expect you to understand or help them. Soft skills -- i.e., the ability to get your point across, explain something, etc. -- are incredibly valuable in the IT industry and it's not just knowledge around the system or how much of a BOFH you are.
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  8. #8
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    Originally posted here by ViRalNeXxUs
    What I like now is that there is a real associates degree you can get that weighs more than any cert called Computer Security Administration. It is even easier to get than CISSP or RHCE or any of those certs. You just have to check into it.
    ??? Interesting. Of course, to get a CISSP, you have to have four or more years of verifiable professional experience. Of course your associates degree is easier to get. Takes all of two years and you get to party hardy the whole time. You still have no, zero, nada real world experience with just that degree. And, who says that it weighs more than any cert??? Your teacher?

    To respond to other posts, HR has completely ruined the IT hiring market. Recruiters and HR departments have misunderstood certifications and credentials to the degree that they have single-handedly diminished the value most of them. It is particularly frustrating for those of us who have put in a lifetime of work and effort to hold the certs and creds we do have.

  9. #9
    oldie ric-o's Avatar
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    Originally posted here by rapier57
    To respond to other posts, HR has completely ruined the IT hiring market. Recruiters and HR departments have misunderstood certifications and credentials to the degree that they have single-handedly diminished the value most of them. It is particularly frustrating for those of us who have put in a lifetime of work and effort to hold the certs and creds we do have.
    I agree with ya bud...I've seen it too in mine and other orgs.

    I understand the need to screen applicants but I personally look down on and dont even consider employers who REQUIRE a degree for security jobs. If they will consider experience as a substitute than I'll consider that company.

    Requiring certs is OK but not if it's exclusive...I know a lot of extremely talented pros who dont have appropriate certs. Again, should allow for experience to substitute if appropriate for position. Also, dont think that ALL positions warrant requiring certs.

    Agree with ya guys about where's CISSP - definitely reduces the credibility of that study.

  10. #10
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    Again, I'm not so sure I buy into this article because in my experience, those who are rating applicants have no idea how to weight IT skills. Because of this simple fact, I tend to believe that the study is BS.
    I couldn't have said it better myself. If you look closely at the article it grades all of the certifications together and quotes "pay premiums" as increasing 3 times faster.
    I could think of a quite a few ways to skew the findings.

    1. lump all certs together, say you have 20 certs 18 rise 20% and 2 fall 150%

    2. certs rise 2% and non-certs rise an amazingly three times faster 6%

    3. non-certs <- what does that mean (kinda generic) allowing you to make it whatever you feel like
    little or no parameters

    4. 6 months is a generally small time frame for percentages rising and falling

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