Reqest a Comment on RFCs and MATHEMATICS!
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Thread: Reqest a Comment on RFCs and MATHEMATICS!

  1. #1
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    Reqest a Comment on RFCs and MATHEMATICS!

    Well... I cant express how much motivation and guidance I am getting from this forum...specially the seniors. I am happy that people here don't flame me by calling me a noob or using other such fishy words and then flaming me for not knowing something and harrasing.

    I need a help from you people in my LLOOOONNNGGG journey ( as ByTeWrangler said to me) from you people.... I know that the ultimate source ( and the official ones ) for studying the protocols and their uses, design, networking indepth analysis and a lot of more things which unveild a lot about OS and networking is lying in RFCs all Untapped by me.

    I searched on google some time back and have got a good site www.faqs.org/rfcs/ to study those RFCs. But after looking at the number of the RFCs, I was blown away!! they are alost 4000 and above and every one of them is enough to be printed in a small BOOK form! Going through all of them is not possible for me ( nor do i think other will appreciate that!). Since you people would be knowing more about this resource, All I want from your side this time is:

    Could you please tell me the RFC numbers along with names which are the important ones??

    I would like to know about every other RFC which contains something USEFUL...and is not of the sort of "discussion" on a standard like many I have read...

    I will appreciate a positive response from your side about the RFCs... and those who wish to reply me...please take the pain to mention the NAME AND NUMBER both of the RFCs.

    Now another part of the heading of this post: MATHEMATICS.
    I know surely that mathematics as in any other part of life or science plays a GREAT role in hacking. But since computers are much different from any other science subject and mosly deal with boolean algreabra, logics, gates and other Discreet maths, How much of maths' specialization is required to become a TRUE and GOOD hacker??

    Do I really need all that calculus and Trigonometry to Infiltrate netowkrs, Break the OS securities, find exploits and write good programs? Plesae tell me what are the areas I need to specialize in mathemtics for being a good hacker....and of course whch are not so important...I know nothing can be ignored..but then there are some which must be SPECIALIZED.

    I am standing at the point from where I srealize that I cannot reach the horizon just because its false...sky will never meet the earth...on the other side I cant just sit down on earth. I see endless possibilities and lot of confusion. I hope my seniors will guide me to the right path.

    Thanks you all.....waiting for your Replies...

    ~Jockey
    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

    - Albert Einstein

  2. #2
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    Hey Hey,

    First.. you should have posted this as two seperate threads because well.. it's two seperate discussions... both of them with some merit and both of them that could lead to decent discussions... but oh well...

    RFCs first....

    No one can tell you which RFCs you _SHOULD_ read and which ones you _SHOULDN'T_ read... It's a matter of choice... I can tell you I haven't read all of them... I have no interest in reading all of them (at least not at this point in my life)... However I have read a number of them.... to give you some examples..

    I read RFCs 1945 and 2616 while working on an HTTP Fuzzer.
    I read RFC 1459 while working on a Python IRC Client
    I've Read RFCs 821 and 2821 on SMTP
    I've read the IETF Draft for SSH...

    I read things as I'm using them... So if I'm looking at FTP I'll pull up the FTP releated RFCs.. For POP3 I'll pull up the RFCs related to that... You really can't say here... read these ones... They're important.. they are all important... so you read what you need to.. it's not like studying a text book.. it's not something you generally do for the hell of it... You usually have a purpose..

    As for math.... there's varied opinions on that.. Computer Engineer and Computer Science.. well then you need Calc, Algebra... even Finite.... When you're talking computer security... Binary Math...and Dec, Hex, Bin, Oct conversions... beyond that you seldom if ever use it any of it...

    Peace,
    HT
    IT Blog: .:Computer Defense:.
    PnCHd (Pronounced Pinched): Acronym - Point 'n Click Hacked. As in: "That website was pinched" or "The skiddie pinched my computer because I forgot to patch".

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    Hmmm... thanks HT But I didnt say that someone tell me what I should read or not...May be i did put myself worngly in the post...I should have asked something like this:

    CAn someone tell me what are the numbers of the RFCs for the genral services like TCP, IP, FTP, HTTP, ICMP, UDP and more...for the time being....i will only ask you the numbers of the abiove ststed services...just the RFC numbers of them...rest I willl automatically start decideing which one to read and which not.... ANd I think this is the best way I can ask you the question I need to and the easiest way you could solve my confusions.

    AS far as MATHS is concerned, the colleges here in INdia ( just like the students) praise the MICROSOFT soooo much that software engineering is a must for a student studying in Information Technlogy...however I will have to study a bit less of thos BOring calculus and trigonometry.....I will manage it. And thanks for telling me whats is important for someone to know in maths for being good at hacking and security. However I think I know some of the for sure. SO that might come handy for the time I will need it.

    Waiting for futrthur sugesstions .......
    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

    - Albert Einstein

  4. #4
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    Originally posted here by jockey0109
    Hmmm... thanks HT But I didnt say that someone tell me what I should read or not...May be i did put myself worngly in the post...I should have asked something like this:

    CAn someone tell me what are the numbers of the RFCs for the genral services like TCP, IP, FTP, HTTP, ICMP, UDP and more...for the time being....i will only ask you the numbers of the abiove ststed services...just the RFC numbers of them...rest I willl automatically start decideing which one to read and which not.... ANd I think this is the best way I can ask you the question I need to and the easiest way you could solve my confusions.
    If you want specific RFCs.. go look them up... We're not here to hold your hand every step of the way... Go learn on your own... go to a search engine.. punch in RFC +TCP or RFC+HTTP... you can do this.. you don't need us to do all the leg work for you so that you can sit back and relax.. sheesh.
    IT Blog: .:Computer Defense:.
    PnCHd (Pronounced Pinched): Acronym - Point 'n Click Hacked. As in: "That website was pinched" or "The skiddie pinched my computer because I forgot to patch".

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    UH! why didnt the idea come into my mind...sorry ha... I will do my homework myself. Thanks for that suggestion..I looks like I am getting paralysed...after joining antionline...

    Thanks HT.
    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

    - Albert Einstein

  6. #6
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    jockey0109

    Forget this "hacking" nonsense.............you must learn to think laterally and logically. You must learn the difference between "interpolative reasoning" and "extrapolative reasoning"

    Here is a link to a guy's website. Please try to borrow his books from your library, they are worth the effort.

    http://www.edwdebono.com/debono/lateral.htm

    So, in the case of mathematics, you must appreciate that it is actually a formal language, that is, a tool.

    You use those parts that achieve your objectives. Off the top of my head you will need:

    1. Arithmetic
    2. Algebra
    3. Matrix Algebra
    4. Boolean Algebra
    5. Statistics
    6. Number theory

    Other branches of mathematics would depend on what applications and environment you are dealing with.


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    Dear nihil....

    I completely agree with you... you are right. I have heard the name of this guy...and as far as my memory goes...he is the one to coin the term lateral thinking...I will certainly go through the page. Oh I am right..I read the page...its good...I think I will read on more on his website. Now nihil, let me tell you some more things :

    I know that most people say that he is always thinknig about hacking..its not such with me....this forum's very spirit is related to hacking...so I use the word here..now as far sa the thinking pattern is concerned, all i can say about the condition i live in is that I am scolded by my parents, my teachers and I got less marks just because I think in a different way. I dont know what type of persons are there who say they teacv computer science. I remember myself claiming to get 98 in computer science exam for k-12 but i got only 75 just because people check here if i have written the EXACTLY SAME CODE which id written in book or not...what do you think that could be?? ANyway I dont care for those marks...

    So I think that my mindset points in the right direction...some good guidance from my seniors will do the rest of the job for me.

    As far as maths is concerned, I am comfortable with those you have listed out....

    SO now that i know that am worth something in the world, I will try my best to do my work...and sincerly. Thanks both of you again.

    However i would like to ask that what do I do if I am unable to understand a part of a RFC? I am having trouble understanding the words in the rfc 793 ( TCP ) because they use a language which we dont use these days... so sometimes it confuses me...what they mean. May I sk you guys to clearyfy the part?

    I know that it might be a lot of trouble demystyfying terms and that too of RFCs but I cant think of any other solution after i try 10 times. I will try not to ask every single doubt here but certainly some part make my brain itch. so I would ask someone to clearyfy those complex sentence. will try to put as much info in my post on which topic it is and what is the part it is dealing with.

    I know it will be cumbersom for you but .... how ever if you people have some other solution, Please tell me out. As of now, i have been able to understand rfc 793 sucessfully till 50 %.

    Thanks.
    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

    - Albert Einstein

  8. #8
    Senior Member nihil's Avatar
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    Hello jockey0109 , my young friend.

    You are now at a very important stage in your life, where you have to take control, both of yourself, and your life?

    Although I am old enough to be one of your grandfathers ( my apologies for not being good looking enough!), I can still remember when I was your age...........

    It is now quite important that you determine what is the best way for YOU to learn, is it not?

    Rather than just post randomly, please feel free to PM (private message) me first. I will attempt to guide you as to how to phrase your question, and which forum to put it in for the best results.

    I do have some stuff from when I did my master's in educational psychology, which may be a help?

    Please DO NOT send PMs to other senior members unless they say that it is OK FIRST!

    You must be just about to go to university? ............ which one, if you don't mind me asking?

    Good luck,

    Johnno

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    Thanks grand(uncle)!! (I write that with a lot of respect for you) (May I call you SIR from now on...??)

    I cant say how I feel when I see that such a Personwho is so respected on a forum like this one, is so elder to me and still speaks so softly...Again i feel so free that you...who has probably seen a lot of things changing in this forum wants to help me on my language to get the max benifit from the forum.

    But you know SIR, I am going to tell you a very very important aspect of myself in my next PM to you...Hope that you will read it with PATIENCE. ( A lot of pateince is needed to listen to me!!!)
    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

    - Albert Einstein

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