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  1. #21
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    All your software are belong to me. Muhahahaha!
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

  2. #22
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    rcgreen said...

    ... win98. It's at least as secure as XP...
    Did you just say that with a straight face? 98 runs NTFS now (natively, non third party)? 98 can enforce user login? 98 can enforce policies? When did this happen? Is 98 even supported any more... I thought that the patch cycle for 98 and 98se was stopped a while back.


    Now on to this anti-piracy kick that MS is on. They are going to do nothing other than drive some enterprise customers away... the harder it is to install/administer the less likely it is that large enterprises are to run it. I don't doubt that many organizations will be looking to RH/Sun/*nix for an easy fix. This could very well be the impetus that many of those organizations are looking for to make the move.

    Give a man a match and he will be warm for a while, light him on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  3. #23
    Dissident 4dm1n brokencrow's Avatar
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    Ok, you got me there. But, you know what I meant.
    Sorry, phishphreek, didn't mean to sound so condescending. I do know what you mean. He-heh, I feel kinda sorry for all those users who will be trying to drive Vista without a license.

    Well, I don't know if it has changed, but even with XP ( when I first started using it ) as I recall allowed for 30 day installs for learning purposes.
    Thanks, IKnowNot. I didn't realize there was an "educational" clause of sorts in M$'s EULA. 30 days for learning purposes?

    Would that be 30 EARTH days? Is that spelled out in their EULA?

    Is it just me? I find some of the EULAs to be the most convoluted and obtuse documents since the great and notorious Indian treaties of the 19th century.
    “Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.” — Will Rogers

  4. #24
    Disgruntled Postal Worker fourdc's Avatar
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    >I feel kinda sorry for all those users who will be trying to drive Vista without a license.<

    The problem is with Microsoft. I had two brand new HP desktops with licenses on the case, properly registered happily getting updates. Microsoft switched over to version 6 of their update site and "Genuine Advantage" and suddenly both of these boxes were "un genuine" because I was trying to reach thru a proxy server.

    I had to manually download the updates using "administrator options", basically the version 4 update site.

    Now give Microsoft the power to "tag" a computer and strip its effectiveness if it decides a license is bogus, how many hours will genuine users spend on the phone with MS tech support?

    Another issue is how many changes or hardware updates are you allowed to your box before Gates and Ballmer decide your license is no longer genuine?

    It may very well be time to move my home network to Linux. We already use Firefox for the net, Gmail for mail, OpenOffice as our office suite. Gates can take his new OS and play with himself.
    ddddc

    "Somehow saying I told you so just doesn't cover it" Will Smith in I, Robot

  5. #25
    AO Curmudgeon rcgreen's Avatar
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    Did you just say that with a straight face? 98 runs NTFS now (natively, non third party)? 98 can enforce user login? 98 can enforce policies? When did this happen?
    98 is secure against remote attack. Since my (admittedly narrow) definition
    of security doesn't regard the user as a threat against his own PC, all that other
    stuff is unimportant in my choice of a PC operating system. Policies? Bah, get
    a mainframe and give users a dumb terminal. Let them try to install solitaire
    on that!
    I came in to the world with nothing. I still have most of it.

  6. #26
    Dissident 4dm1n brokencrow's Avatar
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    I have installed my licensed copy on other machines a few times to see how XP would react to different things such as partitioning software, drivers, updates, etc., and all was acceptable within the EULA as long as I deleted it when I was finished learning .
    I've gone over MS's standard EULA for the home edition, and find nothing about "acceptable learning". Check for yourself. Obviously, there's a number of EULA's, but I have my doubts MS allows the kinds of installs you're describing under their standard EULA's. If you can show me the language of their EULA allowing such installs, I'd be very interested. If I get a chance, I'll check a volume licensing agreement in our MS licensing packs at work (new job!). And with Vista's licensing technology, I can't imagine that kind of install being validated and authenticated.

    If it wasn't I don't think there would be any admin that wasn't in violation!
    Yep, that's pretty much what I was getting at. D@mn shame we gotta be sneakin' around just to learn what we need to know to support our users.
    “Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.” — Will Rogers

  7. #27
    The ******* Shadow dalek's Avatar
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    I'm sure that odds being what they are, one of these will be pirated...
    [cheeky]

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  8. #28
    Senior Member IKnowNot's Avatar
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    I've gone over MS's standard EULA for the home edition, and find nothing about "acceptable learning".
    Yes, I was mistaken about it being in the EULA ( I just checked my XP Pro disk.)
    As I now recall ( age is a bitch ) it came from amendments to it on one of Microsoft's tech sites. It specifically spelled out what could and could not be done ( was intended specifically for testing such as I described. ) I am a stickler for trying my best to comply with licenses and such which is why I remember it.

    I just did a Google search for it but don't have time right now to sift through all those pages referring to Academic and Educational Institution licenses, Vista testing, etc.

    I printed it somewhere several years back, if I find it I'll let you know. I think there was even some discussion here at one time concerning it. Maybe Nhil remembers?
    " And maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be" --Miguel Cervantes

  9. #29
    Super Moderator: GMT Zone nihil's Avatar
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    Firstly, let me make it clear that I am not a Microsoft basher...........we all know that VMS is the only true operating system.............. it is just that the garage space and the three phase power supply limit us?

    Yes, we did have the discussion a while back.............. but I am getting old as well

    One thing I have to say in Microsoft's favour is that they have NEVER refused to help me, and have never refused a reasonable request. Yes, I have done things that might not be strictly within the Law, but it has not been to their detriment.............well not over here at least?

    In the UK they would have to prove intent to defraud and material loss, for instance...............

    I do recall what IKnowNot is saying, and it was something along those lines.................... hey, they like as many frontline engineers who work for free as they can get?

    If you cannot do someone any good: don't do them any harm....
    As long as you did this to one of these, the least of my little ones............you did it unto Me.
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  10. #30
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    I'm suprised that a simple article in USA today that doesn't even begin to cover all the technical details of how this will work is already generating such disdain for the new policies... Don't you think that MS is going to take into consideration how this works and make sure that they don't lose money by overloading their support services with what will amount to free tech support calls?

    Also, centralized license management is much better than the way it is done now.. I don't know how many of you have had to audit an organization to make sure all of your software license are legit, but it is a hard and time consuming task. Give me the ability to do all of that from a centralized server, and make it work well(which is doesn't now) and I will take that over the current enter a key on install method any day... I don't see this causing that much more work for companies that plan properly and deploy in a smart manner. If anything it will make things much simpler for very large organizations..

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