December 8th, 2006, 11:45 PM
Also, some of these things are deliberately set up as honeypots. Not your average neighbourhood unsecured network most likely, but I personally know of someone who got to hear about a couple of turds trying to sniff his WEP connection and decided to deliberately allow them to connect. Then he got all their details and exacted revenge on their systems. He's a lot more knowlegeable than they were and they very definitely came off a lot worse!
I'm not condoning this either, but you just don't know what you're playing with, and if you get involved in something illegal, then you can't expect sympathy when it all goes pear shaped.
As to your comment about my general wisdom etc, well I would argue you too are old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, or else what are you doing here if you're only 12 years old? Hell, at 12 my kids knew basic morals, which I could also refer to as your conscience, ie that part of you that knows the difference. No excuses.
December 9th, 2006, 12:11 AM
Moira: I only have a second, but I should have made myself more clear. I was talking about morals and how not everyone has the same morals. Everybody has a different set molded by their upbrining, community, local/federal laws, etc. I do know the difference between right and wrong. However, our opinions are going to change on what we determine to be right or wrong. Classic example on which I don't really want to debate. Abortion: A lot of people think it is right and a lot of people think it is wrong. Capital punishment is another. I was referring to your age/wisdom as you should know that everyone doesn't have the same morals. You speak of morals as if they are one set of rules that everyone should follow. That is not true.
I tried to get a hold of someone in our "high tech computer crimes" division today but was told someone would call me back. As you can guess, I didn't hear back from them. I do know of ways to contact them through "back channels" haven't had the opportunity to do that yet. I've been invited to visit our state police department computer crimes lab a couple of times. I'll also contact some other people through our local infraguard.
Also, with regards to honeypots, there is a whole other set of legal problems. I'll refer you to http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1703 and http://www.sans.edu/resources/studen...s/Cyberlaw.pdf if you're interested.
A lot of people would view honey pots as wrong, especailly the people that will be "caught" in them. I on the other hand think they are right and enjoy playing around with them. If I get caught in a honeypot, so be it. I hope I provide interesting data... because I haven't captured anything too interesting at all.
Last edited by phishphreek; December 9th, 2006 at 01:29 AM.
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December 9th, 2006, 12:50 AM
Well, I would hold that we have inbuilt accountability for our actions and at a fundamental level, we *know* there is only one right path to follow. This is touching on another more complex subject, but when you really get down to it, I don't think it's difficult, we're just blinded by obstacles in the way that convince us we can justify what we do.
December 11th, 2006, 03:08 AM
Meh... Sister J sold the site to JupiterMedia a few years ago...
Originally Posted by antion9876
Real security doesn't come with an installer.
January 9th, 2007, 07:58 PM
I don't know if it's illegal, but I don't see why you shouldn't use it. As long as you don't sniff they're network passwords with Wireshark, Cain, etc... or take up to much bandwidth I don't see how it's wrong.
January 9th, 2007, 08:13 PM
Well I think the arguement goes...
if they are dumb enough not to secure it...go ahead
...I guess that goes if you are dumb enough to leave you car\house open....
I guess its not illegal to help yourself to that too
How people treat you is their karma- how you react is yours-Wayne Dyer
January 9th, 2007, 08:46 PM
kyrios it's not really a debate about whether you think it's wrong, it definitely is wrong, ie illegal. What you're saying is that it's justifiable, but then I guess that goes for anything only just one side or other of the law.
Like, everybody speeds while they're driving. That doesn't make doing 35 mph at 5 am on a quiet road right, but you could argue that it isn't doing any harm either. The trouble is, going down that road means it starts to get a bit blurred about who the actual victim is, ie is the person who chose to walk down a dark alley to blame or the guy who assaulted her?